Cpt.Fred Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 it shouldn't be a problem. this is 6.00x16" on OEM wheels with about 3 inches of drop in the front, 5" in the back. only issue was the bump stops, like i said, but with fresh coil springs it works fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 okay, BTT! I took off the lower a-arms, followed by the upper ones, uprights still attached. Then i began the quest for the lock pins... hidden under the enormous crust of grease and road grime. Best thing there is against rust, though! It looked like they had already taken some abuse in the past... Seperated the upper a-arms from the uprights. Modern arts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I took the uprights to the bench vise, checked the new pins from the kit and compared them to the old ones in place. It appeared like at least one of them was driven in the wrong way... no good. I put a box nut under the opening to support the piece, got a friend with big gloves to hold everything in place and then, after a series of sharp blows, i finally got the pins out. Wheew... Look at them, not a pretty sight: Anyway, i was pleased. Put it in an upright position and then removed the upper grease cap with a chisel. With an old socket wrench extension i hit the king pin straight on the head, right here: It went straight down and out, taking the lower dust seal with it. Now there is the answer to my question about the ball bearings, i guess now i know what you meant, Andy... Edited January 12, 2015 by Cpt.Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, until you can see the parts in all their beauty. Parts, nicely machined like these, something you don't get to see anymore on modern cars...! I have to check my rebuild kit again, i think they might have sent me the wrong one, maybe a P15 kit? Edit: I found this pic of the P15 suspension in Dons great photobucket collection, and it seems like i got excatly the wrong parts here. So here are some parts missing in the kit like the lower outer pivot pins, and the upper steering knuckle support pins and bushings... Dang... I hope the other parts like the king pins and the a-arm bars are the same on both models. Afterwards i put new rubber on my current daily driver, a 1938 Wanderer bicycle. It has to get some love, too, otherwise it might get jealous Edited January 12, 2015 by Cpt.Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) King pins were the same from 1940 to 1954 so they should be OK. King pins probably go up further but my parts book is only good up to 1954. Other front end parts may or may not be the same. I know there were a lot of changes around that time. Often 1939/40 will be different that 1941 onwards. Some parts are good through 1941 and then change. A couple are 1940 specific like the front wheel upper contol arm pivot bar, at least according to my parts book. I know it was a time with quite a few improvements to the front ends of these cars and parts changed quickly. You will need to be careful what you order. If you do not have a parts book with reference to your car, you should order one. Sometimes the old parts are better than the new ones made in China and actually fit better. I found this out when I did the front end on my 1951 Dodge and it is a mix of old and new parts and I am very happy with the end result. I have a couple of names of suppliers in Canada that will deal with individual parts numbers and put a package together for you. You can also specify parts are Canadian or US made and not get any modern parts. All their stock is NOS or NORS. Good luck! Edited January 12, 2015 by RobertKB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Robert, that would be very helpful i guess. I do have the correct parts list for my car and should be able to find all the right numbers. I must admit i'm pretty upset right now. Double checked my old bills from back then to verify i ordered the correct parts, and i found i ordered the "front end rebuild kit deluxe" for a 1940 P10... and, of course, paid for it all. I just compared more parts and found, that the tie rod ends included in the kit don't fit, either. They look different and are of rather poor quality. Plus the promised outer pin kits AND stabilizer link kits are also missing in the box. Which practically means that i threw 450USD right out of the window... not to mention this is quite a setback in the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Fred, send me a PM and then we can communicate directly rather than on the forum. We can even cross reference numbers from your book and mine to make sure they are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Fred............my 1940 Dodge has bits from 1940-1956...........as follows..........the kingpins from 1939-1956 are all the same for the Plymouth/Dodge Car..........stub axles 1939/40 the same........1941-1956 the same.......upper inner pins & bush 1939 only, then 1940 to 1956 the same.......upper A arm 1939/40 the same.........upper A arm 1941 to 1956 the same...........lower A arm 1939 to 1956 will interchange BUT from 1946 to 1956 the lower arm has the front sway bar bracketry mounts also .............spindle from 1939-1956 will interchange but the 46-56 doesn't have the sway bar mount as its been moved to the front of the lower A arm...........and finally upper outer pin & bush 1939-40 the same but 1941-1956 the same..................note also that from the factory 1941-1956 upper A arms were a 2 piece welded stamped steel arm, however Moog and others made cast steel replacement upper A arms which whilst looking slightly different are a direct replacement with all standera parts fitting.............do you need just the upper outer bush or the whole A arm?..........can you email your phone number to me at scaleautomobilia@hotkey.net.au or pm me..........I may have what you need..........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Like always, guys, you are the best...! Robert, i'll pm you later on for numbers and dealers names. Andy, i don't really know yet. The upper excentric bushing and lower outer pivot pin are definately missing. My a-arms are fine, just need pivat bars and bushings, while i'm at it. All of these parts are pivoted in threaded bushings, except the king pins themselves. The threads on the spare parts i have here have quite some clearance, i can move the bushings back and forth on the thread without twisting them. (My english leaves me, i hope you understand what i mean...). I'll clean the old parts and check how clearance is on them. I really don't want to put crappy repops on the front end, so if i don't trust what i have i'll try to order NOS parts, i guess... I'll let you know! Thank you so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Fred......whats your phone number?..............Andy Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Fred, unsure whether you'd be able to buy just the upper inner bushings by themselves now...........maybe try Bernbaums, Roberts or Mitchells........I have just compared the 39 and 40 complete upper arms I have and the upper inner bushes are the same, upper arms the same and upper outer concentric bushes also the same.........the only differing upper parts are the upper inner pins, 1939 have 2 bolts to hold them on, 1940 onwards have the 4 bolt arrangement.........so you may have to get the whole upper arm & inner pin/bush assembly.........I DO HAVE a pair of NOS, unused, virgin upper arms with outer bushes if this is any help.......anyway........wheres the phone number..........lol.............I've been practicing my German........lol..........regards, andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Andy, i'll pm you later! Thanks for the offer! Here are the complete front axle parts lists for the 1940 P9 and P10 models, so everyone interested can compare parts numbers and differences to earlier or later models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Alright, i started disassembling the upper control arms and hit the next problem. This is getting quite fascinating. Next question is: As you can see in plate 1, bushing #6 is held in place by the bolt #5 and screwed on the pivor bar #4. Bushing #2 seems to be held in its place in control arm #17 only by its ribbed outer shell. I cannot take pivot bar #4 out of the control arm without removing bushing #2. Anyone ever done this? Do i need a press, or hit the bar to drive the bushing out? Unfortunately my manuals don't say anything about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Both threaded bushings..#2 and #6 need to be removed (unscrewed) to remove the pivot bar shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Fred, just tried to call...........whats the deal?...........were you asleep?........lol...........will try to call Wednesday morning your time........or give me a time that's suitable for you.......lol...........andyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks a lot for starting this very informative thread. I have a '39 P8 business coupe that I'm going to be doing some similar work to so this is very helpful. I have a question on the replacement front coil springs. You say they are Ford Aerostar springs, does it matter what year? I was looking to pick up a pair for my 39. Thank you. -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Thanks a lot for starting this very informative thread. I have a '39 P8 business coupe that I'm going to be doing some similar work to so this is very helpful. I have a question on the replacement front coil springs. You say they are Ford Aerostar springs, does it matter what year? I was looking to pick up a pair for my 39. Thank you. -Chris Check out the linked thread started by Cpt. Fred about 1-1/2 years ago. Even though it's mainly about lowering the rear, post #51 starts where he installed the Moog Aerostar springs. I'm sure he'll chime in with the model#/info. There are a few other threads that are entirely about the Aerostar springs. http://p15-d24.com/topic/33585-new-ways-to-lower-the-rear-end/page-3?hl=%20new%20%20ways%20%20lower%20%20the%20%20rear ***EDIT***BTW Fred, once you get the correct parts, I'm sure the work/look will be spot on. Edited January 14, 2015 by deathbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Dodgeb4ya, of course you're right... the thread on the old part is so deformed it looks more like grooves now... sorry for the stupid question. I soaked them in WD40 over night and later i'll try again with the impact wrench. Andy, just got you're message! i think i understood most of it, though i got to admit australian accent isn't excactly what they told us in school english would sound like... together with my german accent, that i undoubtetly have, i'm sure, this will be a funny conversation! let me figure out the time zones first... 1952b3b23: they're Moog CC850. Ford Aerostar 4.0L V6 1986-1997. deathbound: thanks, man, i sure hope so... everytime i think something will be a walk in the walk in the park... and so on by the way, it seems someone rated the thread 1 out of 5 stars... is it that useless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Useless or not, i couldn't wait. Thanks to the power of the mighty impact wrench (and WD40) i finally got the bushings out of there. Followed by a nice chat with Andy from down under! Thanks man, you saved my day...! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Useless or not, i couldn't wait. Thanks to the power of the mighty impact wrench (and WD40) i finally got the bushings out of there. Just think what you could have done with a real penetrating oil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 such as? seriously, i always want to know about stuff that works better than the stuff i use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) such as? seriously, i always want to know about stuff that works better than the stuff i use! Not sure what you've got available over there but I typically use Liquid wrench. There is also Deep Creep I think made by sea foam. PB Blaster I'm sure others I'm forgetting. Oh and a homemade version of I think acetone and ATF. Edited to prevent future confusion Edited January 14, 2015 by Young Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Kroil, acetone and ATF 50/50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 hmmm.... i might have some old ATF in the back of one of those cabinets here... acetone as well...(what is Kroil?) i'll have a try on the lower control arm bushings! Most of the other stuff i have never heard of. I guess they don't sell it here. Most of the time i use MOS2, Caramba or WD40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Check out the linked thread started by Cpt. Fred about 1-1/2 years ago. Even though it's mainly about lowering the rear, post #51 starts where he installed the Moog Aerostar springs. I'm sure he'll chime in with the model#/info. There are a few other threads that are entirely about the Aerostar springs. http://p15-d24.com/topic/33585-new-ways-to-lower-the-rear-end/page-3?hl=%20new%20%20ways%20%20lower%20%20the%20%20rear ***EDIT***BTW Fred, once you get the correct parts, I'm sure the work/look will be spot on. Thanks for the link to that thread, very useful! Dodgeb4ya, of course you're right... the thread on the old part is so deformed it looks more like grooves now... sorry for the stupid question. I soaked them in WD40 over night and later i'll try again with the impact wrench. Andy, just got you're message! i think i understood most of it, though i got to admit australian accent isn't excactly what they told us in school english would sound like... together with my german accent, that i undoubtetly have, i'm sure, this will be a funny conversation! let me figure out the time zones first... 1952b3b23: they're Moog CC850. Ford Aerostar 4.0L V6 1986-1997. deathbound: thanks, man, i sure hope so... everytime i think something will be a walk in the walk in the park... and so on by the way, it seems someone rated the thread 1 out of 5 stars... is it that useless? Thank you for the part number on the springs Fred. By the way this thread is definitely not useless so the 1 out of 5 rating makes no sense to me either. About the penetrating oil... my favorite is PB Blaster, second in line would be ZEP 45. I found that both of those work really well. WD 40 is something that i dont even have in my garage as i've found it pretty useless in the past. Great work so far and keep the posts coming -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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