gtech636p Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I read through everything I could (and I probably missed it), but I'm having a little issue with the middle cross member in my T5 swap. Did anyone else have to notch the cross member to get the pilot bushing to go together? I've got ~3/4" gap between the bellhousing and the transmission. The top spline of the transmission is hitting the cross member and won't allow the tail to come up any more. The transmission is from an 89 or 90 S10. I have an input retainer that is long and one that is short. The one on the transmission is the shorter one, although I don't have a measurement on it. When I bought the truck I did not have a motor so my mounts are in "best I can figure". The frame mounts have the mount towards the top of the frame and the brackets that go to the bellhousing are right about at the top of the frame. Soo, do I have the mounts in wrong or does the cross member need to be notched a little bit. This is happening on a 48 if that matters.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Do you mean the rear crossmember that the trans could mount too? I have no crossmember under the transmission itself, and I've seen a few others the same, and there's some who custom built. As for notching the actual "bell housing" that bolts to the engine/trans..no, never had to do that at all.......can you take a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 It appears your issue is different that what I thought. I agree with what Young Ed said below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtech636p Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Here's what I've got... I'm all about cutting into that cross member and fixing it up afterwards, but just want to make sure that's the thing to do first. edited due to iphone rotation... Edited November 23, 2014 by gtech636p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 If you've got it that far I don't think the crossmember is the issue. The transmission gets smaller as it goes back so it will get shorter when you push it forward that last bit. I suspect you are just having issues lining everything up. Try pushing the clutch in slowly while wiggling the trans. You can also try and rotate the trans from the back too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Ed is right, I think you just need a 1/4 turn, and a push before you put the bolts in. Really shouldn't need to cut that member that your hitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtech636p Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well, I took the left bellhousing to frame mount off and dropped the motor a little bit. The transmission slid right into place; easiest alignment I've ever had really. Everything from thr transmission to bellhousing looks good. Now for the bad part... I'm hitting the cross member again and cannot bring the left housing to frame mount back together. I'm going to look for front motor mount pictures here shortly to make sure everything is in like it's supposed to be. Currently I have metal meeting metal for the motor cradle to frame mount. This might be wrong?? Is there supposed to be some rubber between those two? That would give me just the right amount of slope to line everything up (i think), Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Between the cradle and frame no. Between the top of the cradle and the engine, yes. Since the rear of the engine is rubber mounted, the front must be also or the vibration would tear the front mount apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 The front mount is the top one in this picture and goes up by the waterpump. The two legs of the front mount do bolt directly to the frame. Does your front mount look squished and worn out? Also what do the back ones look like? There is an upper and a lower and they are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Mounts???? Is this on a car? My truck has no rear mounts, and my front is solid to the crossmember with steel inserts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Mounts???? Is this on a car? My truck has no rear mounts, and my front is solid to the crossmember with steel inserts, Nope Truck. The rear mounts are under the upsidedown L shaped piece that the sides of the bellhousing bolt to. The front is on top of the big U piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtech636p Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) All mounts are brand new. It sounds like the front setup is right as I do have the "H" looking one on top of the timing cover area. The rear mounts have the stiffer (larger) mount on the top. I won't be back in my house until Wednesday so I can't really grab any pictures to clarify until then. edit: The piece shown in Ed's photo on the left is on top, right is on the bottom Edited November 24, 2014 by gtech636p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 This is from a car but it appears to be the same as the photos Ed posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 This is from a car but it appears to be the same as the photos Ed posted. My photo is car ones too. I don't have any lose truck ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Mounts???? Is this on a car? My truck has no rear mounts, and my front is solid to the crossmember with steel inserts, The trucks have the same type mounts. They are shown and clearly explained in the manuals. Besides the obvious benefit of dampening vibration they also provide key alignment and torsional stiffening in the front section of the frame. If you were to eliminate them several items would be negatively affected....not the least of which would be steering as the rear mounts to some extent control the amount of frame flex seen at the steering box. Unlike more modern vehicles the frames in these trucks are designed to have a certain amount of torsional frame flex. This is engineered into the frame with the use of specific weight and cross sections in the frame members and the design of the removable cross member just behind the transmission. The frame member cross sections vary from model to model to allow for different wheel bases and gross weights. So a 1/2 ton frame and a 3/4 ton frame while they may look similar are not the same. And the same holds true for associated items like the axles or springs. Each model had it's own set of components which were specifically made for that application. Job Rated was not just a sales pitch. If you want to verify what I am saying I would invite you to do a study of the parts manuals, frame drawings and the appropriate sections in the service manuals. If you have the body off your frame as I did you can actually witness the amount of torsional flex by using winding sticks attached to the removable cross member. All you have to do is sight down the winding sticks and raise the rear axle on one side of the truck. This central cross member with it's 4 mounting points acts just like a torsion spring. In this design the built-in frame flex itself becomes an active part of the suspension rather than just a mounting point for it. Hope this helps. Jeff Edited November 24, 2014 by Jeff Balazs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Truck has at minimum a 1000 miles with the rebuilt engine and not a lick of trouble with it mounted as is, I don't doubt benefits...but as it sits I'm not seeing any negatives either..... I don't have a steering box anymore....and hope too never again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Truck has at minimum a 1000 miles with the rebuilt engine and not a lick of trouble with it mounted as is, I don't doubt benefits...but as it sits I'm not seeing any negatives either..... I don't have a steering box anymore....and hope too never again How is your bellhousing attached to the frame? Do you have the factory bellhousing and transmission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Factory bell housing, T5 transmission ....bell hosing bolted with the factory 4???? Bolts....no rubbers removed when I took it apart, so it went back the same way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Truck has at minimum a 1000 miles with the rebuilt engine and not a lick of trouble with it mounted as is, I don't doubt benefits...but as it sits I'm not seeing any negatives either..... I don't have a steering box anymore....and hope too never again Can't say I have ever heard of anyone ever doing something like this intentionally. Best of luck with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Factory bell housing, T5 transmission ....bell hosing bolted with the factory 4???? Bolts....no rubbers removed when I took it apart, so it went back the same way Yes and to do what you did you wouldn't have to remove them but that doesn't mean they aren't there. There are rubber pieces above and below the frame pieces those 4 bolts go into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I've had everything out, I rebuilt the 251 in my truck 3 years ago. My parts truck motor is mounted exactly the same in the front as solid, just spaced up from the bracket to the right height...they both had long lives, and mine lives on....I'm happy with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 4mula-dlx, on 24 Nov 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:I've had everything out, I rebuilt the 251 in my truck 3 years ago. My parts truck motor is mounted exactly the same in the front as solid, just spaced up from the bracket to the right height...they both had long lives, and mine lives on....I'm happy with it Glad you are happy with it and it works for you but I must ask what your service manual says about engine mounts both front and rear. I don't recall ever working on any vehicle that had a solid mounted engine with no means for flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sometimes its a preference in feel of the road....but removing insulators is common in muscle car build ups, racing, etc....the vibration is transfered to the shocks and springs. The benefit is the egine is held in place reducing cylinder distortion under hard acceleration, motor mount breakage, engine movement in general and increased clearance for headers. Since the L6 is not a race motor, I imagine the vibration through the frame is minimal, but if mine, I would put the insulators back in...why? The crank bearings are taking an unnecessary beating. 48D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 With such a heavy motor, and very little torque, the flex is so minimal that its just not a concern to me, and being a trained mechanic, I didn't rely on any manual to do the engine swap, only one for engine/torque specs when I rebuilt, and YES I understand the need for the insulators, but you don't exactly run down to the local parts supplier here and pick up a set for this truck. I'm glad your concerned, but believe me when I say again.....Im quite happy how everything works This thread is about the OP's transmission issue, lets keep it on topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 lol....I was on topic. 48D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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