timkingsbury Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Thanks for the question Greg. George is back to his new normal and has built 3 flathead engines, I think about 8 overdrives and 5 or 10 split exhausts / intakes this year. He has also been working on 4 or 5 cars, lol.. including mine and our dragster. But he is slowing down, no question about it, and he has been throttling it back, as his 83rd birthday isnt far off. I was just saying to someone, one of his best friends who was my Dad Eddy, was born 5 days apart from George. When Dad passed away about 4 years ago, George definately throttled it back quite a bit in terms of items for customers and has worked on a lot of the projects he has always wanted to do for himself or family/friends. For example this year was the second year he didnt make chrysler carlisle. He was feeling ok, but the heat and the 5-6 hour drive he opted out of. The rest of the AoK group are doing well I think. Too darn busy really but trying to keep the High Performance Flatheads Forever attitude moving forward.. rofl.. On fentons, we have flowed both the fentons for small blocks, and the one for the big block (25 1/2" canadian block). I will be kinds and say, they are definately superior to an Offy, but about 80% of an edmiunds. If you put about 1 1/2" spacers between the intake and carbs, you can get the performance close to what George gets with his customization of the stock intakes, to make them into dual carb intakes. You would not want them for a truck or powerwagon, and really are better suited if you change the cam in the engine as well, where the edmunds you can bolt onto a stock engine and see immediate gains. As well they have nothing cast on the intake to allow you to easily use truck or earlier car linkage, although that is not impossible to overcome, just takes away from the visual. So if it is strictly performance.. Edmunds 1955 - 1967 casting which large internal flow channels would be my 1st.. the older Edmunds with smaller channels would be 2nd, George asche's or others customizing the factory intake, splitting them, would be 3rd, a Tattersfied would be a 3rd, but not a distant 3rd, and an offy are the 4th and for me a very distant 4th. Without slagging anyone too bad, copying bad design exactly may have visual appeal, but it its performace was not great on the original it likely isnt improving a lot with the copy. I say that as there is pretty much a copy of the offy being cast today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I have had the opportunity to drive a couple of 4 dr sedan 218's with the offy set up. I believe my Fenton equipped 230 is a much livelier set up, and I am running single exhaust and the stock cam. It pulls well from about 15 mpg in high gear, and seems to rev out fairly well. I am especially happy with the way it pulls from 40 to 70 in top gear. It may well be the Biz coupe's lighter weight and 4.11 rear. maybe more atributal to the 230 v the 218 but way better than the single carb'd 218. I do have 1 inch phenolics under my GA carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Cool..But we have to get you dual exhaust. Getting the exhaust away, aka let it breathe is really important. You will definately see a significant difference! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 How about a Chrysler Straight "8" polished Edmunds intake I put on a old core engine just to see how it looks. Uses 2 Stromberg carbs. A rare manifold to say the least. Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes it is indeed a pretty rare peice and I do have 1, but really havent tried to improve it. The flathead 8 market is super slim and its more a torque than an rpm engine. I have never flow tested the intake either although the big plus is the fact your can put a second carb and this more cfm of carb. It is quite sqaure in nature so if you were looking for better flow, then the Ellis that was made for the flathead 8 has a little better flow.. To explain the comment of a little square. I have enclosed some pictures.. The one intake is the edmunds triple made for the canadian big block 6 (25 1/2 block) and beside it is the core sample for our AoK triple. You can see the gentle curve verses the must squarer 90 degree angles. and then you can see the AoK triple completed. For Eddy Edmunds, the casting technology he used was state of the art, so I am not slamming the effort. Ellis made their dual carb for the flathead 8 30 years later and so things had changed... and when we made out triple, it has changed dramatically and now you can use foam core. I am sure Eddy would have made significant changes had he had the current technology. But back to your intake.. I think the cool factor is through the roof and that is why I have 1. I put adapters on mine taking the dual carb posts back to a single barrel carb. The why.. is because a 1952-1956 truck carb can be jetted to 625 cfm per carb. So I could get more cfm out of 2 single carter ball and balls, than 2 dual carb intakes of the period. Besides, its easier for me to pull matched singles than duals. this isnt the adapter we used, but it will give you an idea. http://www.ebay.com/itm/stromberg-etc-2-barrel-carb-to-1-barrel-manifold-adapter-rat-rod-new-/131347546411?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e94ec812b&vxp=mtr You can also flip them to use dual barrel carbs on a single barrel intake. I also gained a bit of hieght which actually helped with rpm as well. But the truth is, its more about cool and in a chrysler business coupe, its more about cool. It just weighs to much to be anything other than that. So I hope to see you get that on the engine and in a vehicle ! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hi Guys - I just cant help but jump into this conversation. At the prices being tossed out for the Canadian 25" big block engines, for the dual carb truck intake and exhaust setups, lol, I might consider freeing up a couple ! As mentioned, here is a picture of George Asche and My Dad and I's creation which is a triple carb intake for the big blocks. Because you get equal flow of fuel into each of the siamese ports you actually can use smaller lets and get better fuel mileage as long as you keep your foot off the floor. Or if you step on it you definately get an increase in torque and power. I have attached a picture. I think we have 20 or 30 of them out on in the field, and of course we run it in our rear engine dragster as well I run it in my 1949 plymouth business coupe. Here is a link to a couple of videos I put up of the 1st real firing of both the dragster engine which spins north of 7000 rpm and my plymouth. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8y7yB5J7YNWI2Rnnvn8rig/feed?view_as=public They both have the exact same intakes. Because there are so many different versions of the carter ball and ball carbs, you can lower or raise the cfm by what carbs you use even if you want to stick with rock stock carbs. The big key is having all of the carbs exactly the same. Now on the small block, George as a few have mentioned does make dual carb intakes and split exhaust out of stock intakes and exhausts. They are awesome and have really good performance results. We have been asked quite a few times about making a dual carb intake for the small block, similar to our AoK triple. I say similar as the performance way exceeds the triple carb edmunds. On the dual carb intake front the tattersfield looks cool but really doesnt have the performance of the edmunds. You get more torque than stock but the rpm is not close to the Edmunds. The offy has all kinds of rev but less torque than stock. As well all of the dual carb intakes for the 23inch small blocks dont allow for older engines or trucks which run linkage differently than the later model cars and there is no spots on the intake to bolt linkage. When I read this forum and some of the prices being tossed around, maybe there is a market for a small block AoK dual carb intake. While we have a ton of the work and research completed with both our triple and having flowed and tested all the various dual carb setups out there, there is still a fair amount of work required to bring a dual carb intake to market. So my question to you guys is do you see a market and at what price ? Would you buy one at $500 +,$500, $450,$400 $350 or under $350 ? The difference in pricing really would be based on volume needed to bring it to market. If we need to be able to bring them to market at $500 vs under $350 we we would need to have a much smaller market. For our triple, we were building it, and cost wasnt the factor as we really didnt build it as a product to sell. It was for ourselves and the selling of them was definately a secondary consideration. But to do a triple at this point, it would need to be based on a product we were bringing to market. So guys - sorry to bend your ear so much. If you are interested you can certainly drop me a note, or give me or George a call. George\s number was posted earlier and my number is 519-766-5695 and my email is fargopickupking@yahoo.com Thanks for your time Tim Kingsbury (or also known as the K in AoK.. lol) Can you post results of your testing for us? If it's proprietary info & you choose not to, I understand. I have a Sharp dual carb intake & am curious how it rates among them. I'm currently running the Carter/Weber carbs Langdon sells, but I really want to send a couple stock carbs I have to George for rebuilding. Thanks for any info & your informative posts. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin (UK) Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, I'd be interested, too.I'm also running a Sharp dual carb intake with twin Carters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Make that 3 interested in results, also I would be interested in learning exactly what has been done to the dragster engine to get 7000rpm?......its not that I would copy it..lol.......tho' if I win the lottery you'll get a couple of orders, lol........but seriously tho' I am VERY impressed with what you guys have done and would like to know what changes, modifications etc you have had to do to get a flathead spinning at 7000.....anyway many thanks for all the work so far, I am very impressed, regards, Andy Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Hi Derek - You said - "Can you post results of your testing for us? If it's proprietary info & you choose not to, I understand. I have a Sharp dual carb intake & am curious how it rates among them. I'm currently running the Carter/Weber carbs Langdon sells, but I really want to send a couple stock carbs I have to George for rebuilding. Thanks for any info & your informative posts. Derek" As I think you have guessed that is really not information I am going to post on a public forum that then can be used against us. We have not tested a sharp dual carb intake. In fact I have never seen on. Would be interested in having a look at it and flowing it. Is it one of the copies of one of the other intakes as I have seen done, or is it a new creation. On the Carter/Webers, lets say I have known Tom a long time and he is a great guy. I often kid him he has wasted too much time trying to fix bowties and should have spent more time on Mopars. Tom has also done George and I lots of favors as we have him, so I am not about to take shots at Tom. I like and respect him too much. I will say, we dont use the carter/weber carbs. Let leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Hi Robin - you said "Yes, I'd be interested, too.I'm also running a Sharp dual carb intake with twin Carters." See my note to Derek. I have never tested the intake so I cant comment on it. I have never seen one that I remember off the top of my head. Your using twin carters, do you mean two carter ball and balls or twin as in two barrel new style carters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Hi Andy you said "Make that 3 interested in results, also I would be interested in learning exactly what has been done to the dragster engine to get 7000rpm?......its not that I would copy it..lol.......tho' if I win the lottery you'll get a couple of orders, lol........but seriously tho' I am VERY impressed with what you guys have done and would like to know what changes, modifications etc you have had to do to get a flathead spinning at 7000.....anyway many thanks for all the work so far, I am very impressed, regards, Andy Douglas| Lol.. yes I am sure you are.. Actually, it spins about 7 grand.. I would say we can show you it touching well over 7200 rpm. It depends on what results your are interested in. We have tested I think 7 different intakes and have not tested a sharp so I can’t tell you. I can certainly rank intakes top to bottom and I think I have already done that. It really isn’t in our interest to start putting up charts showing testing results, both flow, and putting exact same carbs on exact same engines and measuring results up on a website when there are people actively competing against us and can take that kind of data that has costed us a lot of time Lol.. yes I am sure you are.. Actually, it spins about 7 grand.. I would say we can show you it touching well over 7200 rpm. It depends on what results your are interested in. We have tested I think 7 different intakes and have not tested a sharp so I can’t tell you. I can certainly rank intakes top to bottom and I think I have already done that. It really isn’t in our interest to start putting up charts showing testing results, both flow, and putting exact same carbs on exact same engines and measuring results up on a website when there are people actively competing against us and can take that kind of data that has costed us a lot of time and money and use it against us. Even more so when we are thinking about bringing a dual carb Plymouth/dodge manifold to market. That just wouldn’t be a good business plan, although I understand the curiosity ! But the proof is in the pudding, so right now we have enough aok triples out there you can talk to people who have them, so you can listen to online or come out and see them on vehicles we have. I am pretty confident you’re not going to see to many outperforming us. But let me talk about your question about the dragster.. or did you have a look at the YouTube video on my 1949 Plymouth business coupe as we first fired it up. The short version on how to get the engine to 7200+ rpm is cam design, get it breathing and get lots of fuel into it and out of it via the way of exhaust. The trade-off is that it is around 2000rpm to have it idle and for the street that is going to be very lumpy. The difference (short version) between the dragster and my business coupe is a less radical cam, less cfm of carbs and a more street legal exhaust.. oh and the dragster uses a magneto Other than that, the engines are very close.. Both have Venola Racing Pistons that we had custom made. They are top fuel grade pistons, plasma moly rings. My car bored out 90 tho. The race car out 120 tho. Everything is balanced, and the crank has a few mods then mated up with clevite 77 bearings. The block is decked, the heads on each are specially prepared, there is some valve work and both have cams that we have custom cut to our specifications using our patterns. We have used various intakes, heck George used an edmunds triple on his 29 desoto when he won the flying mile on daytona beach in the early 50s so we have experience with that and a lot of intakes. It wasnt we couldn’t get one as I have 3 edmunds triples sitting on the shelf right now. But we felt we could take today’s technology and improve on the intake. In the end, it’s not even close and putting our AoK triple on the dragster or on my 1949 Plymouth business coupe really has resulted in major gains. Topped off with specially prepared ball and ball carbs and bingo. there is how you get to 7200+ rpm. There is no turbo or supercharger, there is no NOS on it, there is no magic fuel. Now notice I didn’t say we would never try a super charger.. hint hint. Oh I may have missed out a few prayers and asking God for a lot of help! Hey maybe you should plan a trip out to see us. There is nothing like taking a ride in person to see whether there is real performance or just a bunch of hot air ! For those on the board that have made the trek, maybe had a ride in Georges 1929 Desoto or 1950 Plymouth 4 door that likely has 1/2 ton of extra stuff in it at all times, they can tell you what performance they have. But as impressive as those are, and they are, you come for a ride in my 1949 Plymouth business coupe and you won’t believe it. But then seeing the dragster fire up will likely drop the odd jaw as well ! I hope that helps. I am really not trying to evade or avoid questions but I am not going to hand over all our hard work to competitors for free either. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I did find a picture of Al Sharp holding a chev 6 cylinder intake. I have seen those, and I have see and had a sharp head (poor mans version of the edmunds head as it didnt have enough water jackets and ran really hot). and have seen sharp flathead ford heads and intakes and I know the flathead ford guys rave about the, I did make a quick call to George and he has seen a sharp intake for a small block (dodge/plymouth) but never had it on a vehicle. If someone has one and can send me some pictures and some measurements I can take an educated guess as to if it was a copy of someone elses, or a new design. I do know that Al Sharp brought out his small block Mopar head some time after Eddy Edmunds brought out his, and there are definately similarities. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Tim, what you mention that's been done I more or less assumed, the overbore, 90 and 120thou would give some extra horses, any idea on what sort of horsepower figures you are getting?....... I had the intentions of building a reasonable street 230 with an Edgy head,60thou over pistons, 1/2 race Merv Waggott cam, full balance, twin Holden single barrel Strombergs, HEI Dissy split exhaust(headers don't fit due to the RHD steering box) and a lightened flywheel.......the attached pics show the mocked up engine and the 41 Plymouth it was to go into........however both ended up being sold last yr.......buggar!.......lol...........what approximate compression are you running?......and are you running gas or fuel in the dragster?.........lol..........sounds real crisp either way.........lol................andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Tim.....btw I would happily come visit except for the plane fare.......lol........I am in Australia......so its a little bit outa the way at present...........for what its worth tho' here in Oz there would be a reasonable market for a twin or triple carbed intake to suit the long block Desoto/Chrysler based engine as after the late 40's most of the side valve mopars sold here up to 1962 actually used the 228/250 cube 25" engine sourced from Canada thru the UK Mopar office in Kew England which consequently gave the local name of "Kew" to the sidevalve 6 here in Oz.........I've seen a few hopped up mopar sixes over the past 45 odd yrs however they have never been thick on the ground.........a common trick over here yrs ago was to use the Oz GM Holden six intakes reversed to provide cheap twin and triple intakes for the Mopar 6's........for the 23" engine the pre 64 Holden 6 intake and for the 25" engine the 1964 to 1980 Holden 6 Intake, as these fitted on the US drivers side they were reversed and angled carby spacers used to point the Holden Strombergs(see my engine pic) back up straight............anyway more useless info I suppose..........lol.........what class does the rail run in?............andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin (UK) Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Thank you for your detailed answers, Tim.Here are a couple of pictures of my Sharp intake.As you can see, I'm running twin B&Bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellum Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 That Tattersfield is a piece of art. I'm very impressed by the videos you posted Tim. I'm pretty sure there would be market for the intakes. Rregards Elvis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61farnham Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Thanks all for a timely and informative thread as I'm just sorting out the linkage to install my tall Edmunds intake. I'm planning on starting with stock B&B's with a 3/4" phenolic spacer between the carbs and intake. I would have thought that the Sharp intake's performance figures would be similar to the Fenton as the castings are very similar to look at apart from the fins. I also have another dual intake that's branded D&S and it's identical to the early Fenton one just got a different name on it, from research I've done on the net and info from the Hamb the S in D&S belongs to Al Sharp. I have to say that the Tattersfield intake mentioned in the original post wins the day for looks, i've found an original instruction leaflet for it doing a google search that I've posted below they also made an high compression head for the Plymouth/Dodge engine anyone got one? regards............. Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Tim, what you mention that's been done I more or less assumed, the overbore, 90 and 120thou would give some extra horses, any idea on what sort of horsepower figures you are getting?....... I had the intentions of building a reasonable street 230 with an Edgy head,60thou over pistons, 1/2 race Merv Waggott cam, full balance, twin Holden single barrel Strombergs, HEI Dissy split exhaust(headers don't fit due to the RHD steering box) and a lightened flywheel.......the attached pics show the mocked up engine and the 41 Plymouth it was to go into........however both ended up being sold last yr.......buggar!.......lol...........what approximate compression are you running?......and are you running gas or fuel in the dragster?.........lol..........sounds real crisp either way.........lol................andyd VeryCool pictures. I am not a fan of the Eggy Heads as they do not have as many water passages as the Edmunds and I find they overheat if run hard. In the bigblock engines, I use a 1952-56 dodge truck head, shave it a bit and it will outperform either the Eggy or the Edmunds head actually. That series, the chamber is a more closed chamber like the Edmunds had done. Not sure if your looking for me to comment on your plans or not there.. Boring out 60 thou definately gives you more cubes.As my Dad said many times, there is no replacement for displacement. I know 80 over pistons are also readily available. If you can find them get Forged vs cast. The cam you refer to, I have no experience with, so I would have to know the specs to give you an educated guess on what you would have.Strombergs, i prefer carter ball and balls and you have far more cfm options with the carter. If you want I can supply you or upload the carter ball and ball specs. HEI - I am not sure why. There is zero wrong with the vintage mopar ignition, and the whole concept is a chevy one because they had terrible ignition in the 50;s. I run rock stock on my 1949 plymouth and 1941 plymouth and on about 5 other old mopars as does my buddy George with no problems. So HEI for me is a global waste of money.. use it elsewhere on the build. I use headers created from the split exhaust. Viritually exactly the same flow as the much heavier fenton style headers being sold and a ton cheaper ! I think George charges $150 for a pair with your old exhaust.I will attach a couple of shots of them installed. My engine is a big block, but they look the same on the small block. The compression on the dragster is not streetable and on the youtube video were using airplane fuel. Right this moment it is set up with the same carbs to run alchol. I also know of at least one guy who has taken our AoK triple and is running NOS into it.The intake is designed to allow for tapping it for NOS in each runner.But I will attach a couple of shots of the dragster engine before it was put in the car. It is running a modified Edmunds intake. The modification is that we welded in more material and machined it to change the chamber configuration as well as shaved the head which is super easy to do. If you want to drop me a note I will give you more details but I would prefer not to post on a public forum too much about the dragster details. But my 1949 plymouth is streetable, runs pump gas and is north, rofl of 100 hp... happy to tell you more if your sworn to keep the secret ! The reason is its too easy to add two and two together, and or call up and want a specific horsepower and then get sticker shock because if we have to build an engine exactly spec'd like my 1949 plymouth its pricy. Just the custom top fuel venola pistons and plasma moly rings were my cost $2 grand. But money wasnt an object and I want to build the ultimate streetable flathead engine. Tim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Tim.....btw I would happily come visit except for the plane fare.......lol........I am in Australia......so its a little bit outa the way at present...........for what its worth tho' here in Oz there would be a reasonable market for a twin or triple carbed intake to suit the long block Desoto/Chrysler based engine as after the late 40's most of the side valve mopars sold here up to 1962 actually used the 228/250 cube 25" engine sourced from Canada thru the UK Mopar office in Kew England which consequently gave the local name of "Kew" to the sidevalve 6 here in Oz.........I've seen a few hopped up mopar sixes over the past 45 odd yrs however they have never been thick on the ground.........a common trick over here yrs ago was to use the Oz GM Holden six intakes reversed to provide cheap twin and triple intakes for the Mopar 6's........for the 23" engine the pre 64 Holden 6 intake and for the 25" engine the 1964 to 1980 Holden 6 Intake, as these fitted on the US drivers side they were reversed and angled carby spacers used to point the Holden Strombergs(see my engine pic) back up straight............anyway more useless info I suppose..........lol.........what class does the rail run in?............andyd Lol sorry about that Andy, I didn’t realize you were “down under”. That would be a bit of a hike. Yes when the Canadian Engine plant opened up in Feb 1936 and the big block was created, all of the English colony’s would soon start getting them. In the later years of course the same bore is used for the 238, 250 and 265 ci motors just different rods and cranks with gave you a 4 ¼” stoke for the 238, 4 ½” stroke for the250 and 4 3/4 “ for the 265. The rail is a NHRA vintage class car. Pisses off the old vette guys who take an old car and then put a modern big cube engine in them. The long story short is using a 1952 block, we are able to run in a vintage class. But the honest truth is it is a hassle at many tracks who basically ignore NHRA rulings, and we really are more a novelty than a car we want to campaign. In terms of the intake..well you can buy the AoK triple now. I use it on my 1949 plymouth and the dragster. We have guys who have put them on rock stock engines. Put smaller carbs on them and they got better fuel mileage than the original 1 carb setup. The reason for that is simple. In a single carb intake, your putting fuel down the center on the intake and the intake is then distributing the fuel into the 3 siamese intake ports. Since there is the same pull from each cylinder, you actually get more fuel in the middle siamese port that either of the outside intake ports and under acceleration you get slightly less in the back two cylinders (back siamese port) and the least on the front two. So by putting a carb directly over each of the siamese port you get perfecly distributed fuel. So you need to use less fuel to get the same results. Now the intake design does a few other things but that is the high level reason. Drop me a line I can give you the details. I think we still have 2 or 3 AoK intakes left for sale and then we will see whether we have another 10 made. In terms of a 2 carb set up George Asche has been making them out of stock intake successfully for years. I will put up a second reply in a second with a picture of him at Chrysler Carlisle a few years ago. Unfortunately while is health is still decent, George hasnt been to Chrysler Carlisle for a coupleof years now so I am not sure for how much longer he will be doing it and if his boys will keep at that end off the business. We could make a dual carb AoK version but we would need to sell a dozen or so before we went down that road, although all the design work is done. We are more likely to do the dual carb small block version. Just based on the feedback from the forum this past week, we may just start on that project soon. Just need to get a few more semi-confirmed or confirmed preorders. Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Tim.....btw I would happily come visit except for the plane fare.......lol........I am in Australia......so its a little bit outa the way at present...........for what its worth tho' here in Oz there would be a reasonable market for a twin or triple carbed intake to suit the long block Desoto/Chrysler based engine as after the late 40's most of the side valve mopars sold here up to 1962 actually used the 228/250 cube 25" engine sourced from Canada thru the UK Mopar office in Kew England which consequently gave the local name of "Kew" to the sidevalve 6 here in Oz.........I've seen a few hopped up mopar sixes over the past 45 odd yrs however they have never been thick on the ground.........a common trick over here yrs ago was to use the Oz GM Holden six intakes reversed to provide cheap twin and triple intakes for the Mopar 6's........for the 23" engine the pre 64 Holden 6 intake and for the 25" engine the 1964 to 1980 Holden 6 Intake, as these fitted on the US drivers side they were reversed and angled carby spacers used to point the Holden Strombergs(see my engine pic) back up straight............anyway more useless info I suppose..........lol.........what class does the rail run in?............andyd part 2 - as promised .. George at his booth at Chrysler carlisle.. you can see his dual and triples he makes from stock intakes, for both small and large blocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Thank you for your detailed answers, Tim. Here are a couple of pictures of my Sharp intake. As you can see, I'm running twin B&Bs. Thanks Robin, It is an odd design. Looks like he took his chevy version which needs a step back and just changed the design of the intake ports. Just some items/measurement that I would need to take an educated guess. So for example an Edmunds has a carb height (centerline of engine ports to base of carbs) of 4.37” and has distance from the block to the center of the carbs of 3.632”, a carb port diameter which ranges a lot by the generation of the Edmunds intake and whether it is small or large block and dual or triple carbs.. But the biggest one is 1.54” and the engine port size of the intake is 1.3” An offy has a shorter distance to the block and a carb height of less than 2”. Since I am sure the next question will be what is the AoK triple and you could buy one and measure it, I will save the time.. Our carb ports are 1.7” which is the max size of the biggest Carter ball and ball carb made. Our intake port size is 1.5” which is the max size of readily available gaskets. Our carb height is 3.955” and the carb ports centerline is 4.0”. That gives a better flow. I will attach the core of our AoK beside an Edmunds triple. The side profile of the core and the Edmunds actuall the core should be flipped end for end.. what looks Like by the picture as the intake into the port runners are actually the carb runners That sharp looks like it has a short distance from the block and then has a much bigger block that on the surface looks awkward in terms of flow. But if I knew the distance, carb height, port and carb sizing I would have a better guess. Other than that, I would need to get one to test it. Question, your looping of the fuel line.. is that just to be cool and eye catching (which it is) or is there some performance concept there ? tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Thanks all for a timely and informative thread as I'm just sorting out the linkage to install my tall Edmunds intake. I'm planning on starting with stock B&B's with a 3/4" phenolic spacer between the carbs and intake. I would have thought that the Sharp intake's performance figures would be similar to the Fenton as the castings are very similar to look at apart from the fins. I also have another dual intake that's branded D&S and it's identical to the early Fenton one just got a different name on it, from research I've done on the net and info from the Hamb the S in D&S belongs to Al Sharp. I have to say that the Tattersfield intake mentioned in the original post wins the day for looks, i've found an original instruction leaflet for it doing a google search that I've posted below they also made an high compression head for the Plymouth/Dodge engine anyone got one? regards............. Simon. The D&S is a copy of the Fenton. I have had one, meaured it, and it is exactly the same performance wise.. The tattersfield is indeed the coolest looking... lol well until this entry into the "who care about performance, I want cool".. How about this one off for cool ! Tim ps: Yes we have had a tattersfield head. It was for a small block only. Dad had ordered a big block one, but they never came through with producing them. The head allows you to bore an engine out .125 which makes it very thin but is still possible (most of the time) and use chevy pistons). In a normal head the chevy piston would hammer the head. Stock car guys used to machine off the top of the piston or part of the top of the piston so the other part when into the chamber. The tattersfield was much thicker of an intake by almost an inch. So again, pretty cool and with the right components could out perform an edmunds. If you just used stock pistons it did not outperform an edmunds. So it was a bit of a race-only type of head. Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordkustom Posted November 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 More info than I bargained for .... I"LL TAKE IT! Thank you TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin (UK) Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Question, your looping of the fuel line.. is that just to be cool and eye catching (which it is) or is there some performance concept there ? tim Looping is for looks but, also, the fuel lines are fed via a block on the inner wing so helps to allow for flexing of the lines as the motor moves on its mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Thought I would upload another intake in the"cool contest" Someone had emailed me today to know if we had ever flow tested a thickson. This is the picture of the one he was looking at, which unfortunately I had to burst his bubble that it was a "bow tie". But it is almost identical to the thickson we have tested.It certainly looks cool and it had a water galley that goes all around the intake. If ever there was an intake to prove whether there is benefit to heat the intake this was the one. One the flow bench, while it was as cool as it comes, it comes dead last in terms of anything we ever flowed. I am sure the design was to get a swirl of fuel and air going, however it actually started to condense fuel that was already vaporized and has all kinds of flow issues. On an engine it has huge lags, and does provide RPM but completely looses torque over stock. If we compare the thickson to a rock stock intake and just put a big cfm carb off a truck, the stock intake actually outperforms the thickson. So cool 10/10. look of dual carbs 9/10 (10/10 reserved for a triple) but performance a 4/10 with the scale of 5/10 being rock stock. But thought some might like to have a look at another cool intake from the past. Tim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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