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39 Plymouth Keys


likaleica

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Hi Guys

Just to introduce myself I'm a newbie member from England and just bought my first Yank - a 1939 Plymouth Sedan. She's a right hand drive export model so not sure if she's a P7 or a P8 - maybe someone out there can tell me.  Main problem apart from the brakes not working is the dealer who sold me the car then stored it a while for me LOST ALL THE KEYS!   The ignition lock barrel (a Bosch item so probably not original ??) has 652 stamped on it - could that be the key number?  The driver's door and the trunk locks have no numbers visible (though I have not dismantled them.)  I COULD pay a locksmith a small fortune to make keys for the locks - and may yet have to...but I'd appreciate any information about obtaining the correct key blanks.  And finally a total klutz question - where is the  windshield wiper switch and are they electric or vacuum powered?  You see how little I know about my new pride and joy !

Thanks fellas

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Hello and welcome. I am guessing that your super nice Plymouth is a P-7 because of the floor mounted gear shift lever and the plain dashboard. Also there is no chrome trim around the windshield. You do however have door vent windows which some of the P-7's did not. The wipers should be vaccuum operated but I am not sure where the switch is. Great looking car. Thanks for posting the pics.

John R

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Hello and welcome. I am guessing that your super nice Plymouth is a P-7 because of the floor mounted gear shift lever and the plain dashboard. Also there is no chrome trim around the windshield. You do however have door vent windows which some of the P-7's did not. The wipers should be vaccuum operated but I am not sure where the switch is. Great looking car. Thanks for posting the pics.

John R

 

Also if it was a deluxe that trim that ends on the hood would continue along the beltline all the way to the back.

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Gidday from Oz.........nice Plymouth.........the wipers will probably be electric as I don't see the vaccum wiper switch on the top centre of the dash as all the vaccum setups I've seen pics show that switch there.......here in Oz the switch is on the lower edge of the dash, near the handbrake handle...the switch is a small "toggle" type switch...at least that's whats here in RHD Oz..........tho' I notice that there is a panel on the lower right side of the dash which could have the wiper switch attached somehow............as to what series it is check the firewall plate and door pillar plate........all those numbers will tell all..........also measure the head length..........am curious whether its a 23" or 25" engine.............regards, Andyd 

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Ed, what was your Dad's 39, a sedan or coupe or convertible?

John R

 

roadking 2dr touring sedan. If you look close you can see it has p15 hubcaps. Just before we sold it Dad had found the proper style caps so these 4 p15 caps live on today on my coupe.

 

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Welcome.  Nice car.  You might have to "stand on your head" and look up under the dash to try and determine if the wiper motor is

electric or vacuum........does it have a hose or a wire going to it?    If hose.........there would be one going to the motor through

the firewall to a vacuum connection on the manifold.

Edited by BobT-47P15
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She's a right hand drive export model so not sure if she's a P7 or a P8 - maybe someone out there can tell me.

 

Yep biggest difference between the P8 and P7 was the shifter. P8 was a column shift and the P7 was floor shift. Also the P8 deluxe had chrome trim that extended all the way down the side of the car and around the trunk. The P7 chrome trim went to the end of the engine side panel. Also the P8 had the bubble speedometer while the P7 was flat.

 

As far as the ignition, I would look at getting another ignition switch with keys. Bernbaum has them:

http://www.oldmoparts.com/parts-electrical.aspx

 

Your car looks like its in great shape. I have a 39 Plymouth as well that still has a ways to go before I will have it street ready.

 

Congratulations on your find and welcome to the forum. Your in the right place - bunch of very knowledgeable Plymouth guys here that can always help with anything.

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Good looking car!

 

Is there still a serial number tag riveted to the right front door hinge post? If there is that should tell you exactly what car it is, or rather with the number found there a lookup in the appropriate set of serial number tables will tell you what the car is. But it sure does look like a P7 as mentioned by other posters.

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Welcome, nice '39. NOS ignition, door, and trunk locks, with keys come up on ebay all the time. Some are pretty expensive, but others, are very reasonable. I had a door key made for my 1964 Santa Fe travel trailer for $25.00, just took the lock to him. Took him longer to find a key blank than to make the key.

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What a fantastic response to both my car and my questions - thanks very much to everyone! I'll haul the old girl out of the garage over the weekend and investigate all those leads you've given me as well as measuring gthe head length. Looks certain it's a P7 Road King though the comment about the door windows is interesting.  I have read that export models were often hybrids of P7/8 so that could be the explanation. One quirk on my car is the driver's door lock is on the left hand door - as it is on US cars. It was definitely RHD from new (even the headlamp glasses have Export stamped into them) so did the factory simply not bother to fit the lock on the other side? As for the dealer I'm a bit cross with him - but I'm cutting him some slack as he sold me the car at a very decent price and stored it free of charge for two months while I moved house. He also got a replacement ingnition lock barrel and keys BUT the barrel is too large in diameter to fit through the original lower switch panel on the dash and I don't want to start butchering it to fit. I'll rfeport back with what I discover and thanks again guys

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On the 1941 Plymouth Coupe I had which was a factory RHD car built in Sth Africa it had the outside door lock & key on the US drivers side or Oz passenger side.......whilst some have said your wipers are vaccum I have some doubt as the vaccum wiper lives under the dash right behind the centre molding and I have never seen a pic of a vaccum wiper setup that didn't have the knob directly above it as the knob has a straight rod that turns a valve on the vaccum motor........my Plymouth whilst it was RHD it DID have the vaccum setup, my Dodge as it was built here in Oz used electric wipers and the switch was mounted under the dash as I mentioned..........I don't see a knob on the top of your dash.....have attached a pic of each cars dash..........andyd

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I'm learning tons here in just a few hours.......thanks to andyd for the info that these cars were also made in South Africa which was my hunch about where the car came to the UK from. Particularly as it is very sound structurally and seems never to have been welded...... Australia is even further to ship to the UK so I think that's less likely though possible. Unfortunately the UK importation documents from 2001 do not say where it came from.  I'm hoping the frame number on the door pillar will reveal its origin and I'll post it on here when I have chance to have a look.

You fellas certainly have some fine looking machinery .....intrigued to know what motor is lurking under andyd's dodge hood,  for starters! 

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roadking 2dr touring sedan. If you look close you can see it has p15 hubcaps. Just before we sold it Dad had found the proper style caps so these 4 p15 caps live on today on my coupe.

 

023_19A.jpg

Great looking Plymouth. I notice that this one too has door vent windows. I have seen some Roadking models that did not. Maybe the people who originally purchased thIS car ordered them. I have also seen '39's with the flatback, no extra chrome but with a column shift. Interesting. Thanks Ed for posting this photo.

John R

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Lika........The 1940 Dodge is an oz one that has the Plymouth fenders, chassis wheelbase, hood, lights etc with Dodge grille, dash & badges.I've had it since 1971 and under the hood is a 318 1962 Oz Chrysler Poly V8, auto, disc brakes etc, yep a hotrod.......lol.....the Plymouth was to get the 230 that's pictured on the stand, ended up having to sell it...........anyway how about some more pics of your car.....lol.......regards, andyd   

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Caution: Rambling answer ahead.

 

The 1939 Plymouth had "domed" speedometer glass on ALL models (P7 & P8) the flat glass is a repro made today by a guy out of California.

The Windshield wipers are vacuum operated and the knob is on the top of the windshield under the interior sun visor

The door lock is on the passenger side in the US so that the door was unlocked on the "curb" side.....for safety (and in some places was the "legally" correct way to enter the car).

If your door lock is on the left side (passenger side) on a right hand drive car....that would make sense.

 

ODD FACT: The1939 Plymouth P7 Roadking "base" car came with only one tail light and only one wiper!

The Drivers side tail light had a small clear "bubble" on the lower tip of the teardrop shaped lens.

The back of the clear bubble was painted in silver paint with a black paint on top of the silver.

The logic was that the car when parked would show a "reflective "DOT" so to alarm passing cars of the parked vehicle.

The passenger side of the car does NOT have the clear glass "bubble" as it would have been ineffective on that side.

The passenger side should have a teardrop lens with the embossed ship but no clear bubble.

Most all 1939 Plymouth's have both tail lamp lens' with the clear glass bubble.

Although incorrect....it still looks cool.

 

FLAWED DESIGN.: the tail light bucket mounts through the fender and is attached to the fender using another exterior tail light bucket (mounted on the underside of the fender). Because the spray from the wheels hits directly on the outer bucket they are usually rusted out or completely missing. Although tail light buckets come up for sale often, I have never seen a set of outer tail light buckets for sale.

 

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Edited by Roadkingcoupe
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Some more really informative stuff here fellas - thanks again.  Had no time to investigate frame numbers etc but I will as soon as I can. Meanwhile a few more pix......including a maroon 1936 McLaughlin Buick that I almost bought the day before I found the much nicer (and cheaper) Plymouth.....

In reply to Roadkingcoupe,  it looks as if the South African factory that almost certainly built my car followed the US logic of having the door lock on the kerbside -  so my RHD car has the lock on the left hand door when viewed from the driving seat - just like andyd's car. I can see the safety aspect of this - and unlike most British cars of the period,  the Plymouth has a bench seat so it's easy to get in the passenger side and slide across to the driving seat.  On the Roadking there is the floorshift lever to contend with on the way over (ouch!) but in a P8 with column shift it would be a synch.

It's looking as if getting a local locksmith to make up keys is going to be the cheapest option - though from previous experience (in London admittedly) they charge quite a lot.  Will keep you posted. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again all.....In the end I've decided to get a local locksmith to visit make up new keys. This seems the cheapest option (as well as avoiding the hassle and possible paint damage of removing the door and trunk locks.)

I HAVE found the wiper switch - or switches to be more precise - tiny black Bakelite buttons almost hidden in the headlining above the sun visors. Each screen wiper is switched on separately by pulling its button outwards. The wipers are vacuum operated AND they work fine !!! Also, these are two-stage switches giving normal or fast wipe - very impressive in a 1939 car when you consider that in the United Kingdom two speed wipers were not generally available until the late 1960s/early1970s! Did all P7/P8 Plymouths have two speed wipers?

Because of business commitments I'm still to get round to investigating my car's frame numbers and P7/P8 parentage - so I'm going to start a new topic on export Mopars in general - if you guys think there is any interest.

Thanks again for all the advice and offers of help - it's much appreciated !

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