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Need Advice and lots of Help


Labrauer

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Hey guys I have a lot of questions I need to ask for you guys. I have checked my engine (218) compression and it looks like this. #1-90 lbs, #2-90 lbs, #3-70 lbs, #4-90 lbs, #5-80 lbs, and #6-80 lbs. I am wondering if I should do an engine overhaul. I looked in the book for the right pressure for the cylinders and found out that it should be 105lbs.  I can hear a popping noise coming from the exhaust pipe in the back of the car. I have heard this noise for some time now but just got around to checking the compression. Hearing this popping noise I would think that I have a valve that is not sealing or something like that. There is no smoke coming from exhaust at all when car starts or ideals or even on acceleration. The engine tends to run a little sluggish even after I rebuilt the carburetor, put in new points and condenser, timed the engine.

 

Question 1. I have an overdrive transmission I am putting in the car too so if I get the suggestion to overhaul the engine should I take the engine and transmission out together and what needs to be removed in order to remove both at the same time. 

 

Question 2. How expensive is it now days to overhaul these flathead engines in the around ballpark idea area?

 

Question 3. What advantage is it to have the engine bored 20 to 60 thousands oversized and is there any advantage at all to doing this? 

 

Question 4. Is it any advantage to get a higher cam and crank for these flatheads and will it make it perform better or just make the engine sound mean? 

 

Question 5. Where can I find all the parts to do this overhaul including gasket sets, pistons, rings, and every other parts I may need to do a complete overhaul if needed?

 

Question 6. Do the engine repair places nowadays know about these old engines enough to do a good job on the specs, clearances and all to do a good job or should I trust myself enough to do it my self? I am worried that todays mechanics  (at least around here) don't know about these old engines as I wanted a few to do a brake job on the old car and they said they have never did one on such an old car so I used the book and did it myself. 

 

I know this is a long thread and I will appreciate any comments, suggestions pros and cons from many of you,

thanks in advance.

 

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Edited by Labrauer
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I'd be pulling the cylinder head and checking there....it might be a stuck valve or 2......as far as rebuild costs go it would depend on how far you go, ie, if you look around at the various dealers and also on the net you should be able to get most of the wearing parts, ie, pistons, rings, bearings, etc however unless you have all the tools etc it maybe better to get the machine shop to do the assembly........I'm no expert but taking 30-40 thou off the head would help the compression assuming the rings and valves are o/k, an extra carby, headers and low restriction exhaust & uprated ignition will all help..as for a rebore.well theres no replacement for displacement, tho a nice overbore of about 30-40thou would be a good start.......also even if its a bog stock engine a proper balance job will help considerably.........I had a 230 that was gunna get a reground cam, headers, twin carbs, HEI dissy, finned alloy head and a good balance job........had to sell it........buggar!......lol.......I had all the pistons, rings, bearings etc but I was gunna get a local machine shop to bore the block,grind the crank, balance to lot then I was gunna assemble it..........the only real answer to all this depends on what YOUR situation is, I have a reasonable tool kit, a garage and a couple of very good mates who are very good mechanics so I felt competent enough........lol.......the 318 Poly in my 1940 Dodge I assembled & installed in 1974 is still going stong and I knew less then than what I know now....lol..........but its your call........regards...andyd

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your compression reading seem pretty consistant except for the one cylinder.  If you did this test dry  ( engine cold, just cranking on the starter) I would repeat it with a little temp in he engine, and adding a squirt of oil into the spark plug hole.  The compression then would reflect actual operating conditions.  Your readings should come up.  If the low one doesn't improve that would indicate a valve problem, as the oil and heat will make the rings more effective and should increase comp pressure indicating good conditions.  Or you could attach a vacuum gauge to the engine and  interperete its readings while the engine is running.

Edited by greg g
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To do a complete rebuild, parts can cost up to $1000. With a shop manual, any good auto machine shop should be able to rebuild the engine. Parts are available from Bernbaum or Roberts Motor parts. If the engine is not using lots of oil you could keep driving or do a valve job before a rebuild. I think it is easier to remove the transmission before removing the engine.

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I don't know about cost, but when I first got my 48 Spec Deluxe, my engine compression was about 30-45 psi per cylinder. It hadn't been run in over a year, so I changed the oil and added sea foam to the oil change and just ran/idled it for about 20-30 mins at a time every day on the weekend for about 2-3 weeks. Did another comp check and had between 115 and 118 per cylinder. Make sure to check the comp when the engine is warm and oiled. After flushing the rad and eng block, replacing the fuel pump, tank and rebuilding the carb and distro, The engine is running at this compression and idles at 500 rpms. It purrs like a kitten. Also remember when these cars were built the were built bullet proof.

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I would consider pulling the head and seeing how severe a job you had before you; it might be cheaper to just buy the needed parts seperatley from Berbaum or eBay, if you didn't have to have a full kit.

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Thanks guys for all the comments and answers to my questions. It seems to me that most of you are not in favor of a complete overhaul which suits me just fine because I was wondering where the money for it was coming from. LOL I will take each and every one of your suggestions and put them to good use.

 

Today I took a long hard look at the engine and noticed an oily film on the upper block just below cylinder number 4 and cylinder number 5 on the head. I took a rag and wiped it off and took the old girl for a drive a few miles and then looked again and the oil film was there again. Could this be part of my problem is that the head gasket is leaking? 

 

Just a couple other questions being can the valves be done with engine being in the car and how would you keep the grinned metal from going into the engine it's self?

 

One other thing I am confused about is the sea foam stuff that member soth122003 commented in putting in the oil of his engine. Is this an oil additive or what and can I get it at the local parts stores? I have seen stuff called sea foam for the gas tank but don't think I have to add to oil. Is this sea foam ok to leave in the cars oil and drive like normal till the next oil change?

 

Once again thanks for all the feed back,

labrauer

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as per the prior advice, do a compression test on a warm engine, then squirt a little oil in each cylinder. If the readings go up, the rings are the culprit usually. If they stay the same, it indicates the valves are leaking. You can work on the valves while in the engine if they are not burned. there is a tool to lap the valves in in the block. It's a small stick with suction cups on either end. You put a little valve grinding compound between valve & seat & twirl the tool between hands like trying to start a fire. I may be wrong but I think it can be done with valve springs still on valves but memory is a little foggy. If seats & valves are bad or burned the valves will have to be taken out & ground. There was a power tool setup to regrind seats with engine still in car. Don't know where you could find one. Also don't recommend doing it yourself if you've never used one. I used one years ago on flathead engines in my 1954 Chris Craft cruiser & one seat got away from me. Was able to salvage it but seat wound up about an inch into block. Engine still ran good afterwards but I was just lucky. Good luck.

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I think that if I needed to have an overhaul done, and was not going to do it myself, or just needed some help here & there, I'd sooner go to a tractor repair shop that caters to the older tractors than an auto repair shop.  (There is a certain one here in my community that I would put at the top of my list.)

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Suggest you read the resources section of this webpage as well as the engine section of your shop manual before you do anything. There are a few engine assembly tricks that most are not aware of such as valve guide instillation. The more you are informed the better you can instruct a machine shop on what needs to be done.

 

Were it me I would not purchase any hard parts until I knew exactly what size you need and even then it is best in my opinion to let the machine shop buy the parts. If they buy the incorrect parts it is there baby not yours.

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Yes, I did my valve job with the engine still in the car, but I would certainly not have attempted it with the fenders still on it! And I think that you would not be able to do a valve job with the springs still attached.....but I have been wrong many times :-)

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Well I took the head off the car engine and as my luck has it broke two head bolts off so now I will have to try and get them out some how. Know any tricks to getting broken head bolts out besides a lot of work?


 


 For the most part the head looks pretty good with little carbon in the piston and valve indention. I have tapped the bolt holes out all but the two that I have to do something with. I took a 9" long screw driver and stuck down all the holes and most the screw driver went all the way down except for some of the holes on the intake and exhaust side of the block. 


 I am taking the head down tomorrow to a machine shop if I can find one around here close and not have to drive all the way to Houston town. I will have them check it for warp and I think maybe have them shave just a little off the head just to be sure. I really don't care that much if it increases the horse power or not I just want it straight so hopefully this will not happen again. 


 


I also took a straight edge and checked the block myself using a light on the back side to see if any light came under the straight edge and also used a 0.10 feller gauge and could not get it under anywhere so I guess it is completely flat.


 


I have sent some pics of the block and the head after I took it off. Take a look and see if you see anything that I may have missed or should take a further look at. I also sent some pics of the spot that the oil residue was coming between the head and the block. Now this is what has gotten on the head and block after I wiped it off and drove the car for about 12 miles. 


 


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I suggest you buy/rent a ridge reamer (not to be confused with a cylinder hone) and remove the ridge at the top of the cylinders. Failure to do so could result in a broken piston.

 

Click here>>>  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/oes-25051?seid=srese1&gclid=CI63ztGT6r8CFQwNaQodo2YAsQ

 

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One thing that may help you find a good machine shop is to ask around.  Hook up with a few old car guys and ask them.  Where do they go in your area. There are still plenty of machine shops out there that started out in the business years ago rebuilding engines like these.  They don't see a whole lot of them anymore.  I would replace the headgasket and oil up the cylinder walls and check compression again.  Then decide.  If you had a bad valve, you would have been lucky to to over 30psi.  The rule of thumb is a variance of 10% between readings.  

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I've used a similar method for years.  While many want to try welding just a nut on, it's hard to get that full penetrating weld you need compared to a washer and with a protruding stud, the heat would not get concentrated at the block,  I've done many with just the washer and no nut, using a slip joint pliers to grip the washer and work the broken stud out.  Larger broken studs, I've gone back over the original weld a second time or welded a larger washer to it.  Tough ones, I've used an air hammer on after the welding, driving straight down and seldom have to weld a nut on, taking out 5/8 and 3/4 inch studs at times.  MIG welder works and have used an arc welder at times for the process.  Recessed broken studs, you can concave a washer and weld that on if it isn't broken off too far down.

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  I am convinced that the secret ingredient here is "Kroil".  I have used it for years and it has never failed.  I can only get it now through Amazon.com instead of bringing it home from work.  I can't say enough about it, for rescuing me from desperate situations.  And I've broken a lot of stuff!

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