Power steering for postwar Mopar

[scotty t]

i thought about a similar swap AFTER the rack and pinion was installed. i thought about taking it a step farther though. what about using the steering box and pitman arm and the idler arm and associated centerlink and tie rods from a donor car and updating to parallelogram steering? there would be less bumpsteer. you may need to lenghten or shorten the centerling to make the width fit. by the way, your swap is looking great!

[DonaldSmith]

To scotty t:  

o  Interesting horn contact item.  It would require a bushing on the shaft that is insulated from the shaft, with a wire running up the middle of the shaft to the steering wheel.  I made a similar system on the cheap.

o  Donor car and parallelogram?  Huh?  I figure if I keep the end of the pitman arm in the same approximate location, my present steering geometry should work.  I'll have to check the toe and the centering, of course.  But I am sure that there are other creative solutions.  

 

(Lack of ) Progress Report:  

 

I'm having fits getting the new holes in the frame to accommodate the bolt locations on the steering gearbox.  The hole locations are not symmetrical, so I got the hole spacing wrong.  I fixed that, and had two bolts working.  Then i saw that the third bolt would be near the top edge of the frame.  I lowered the new hole a tad to avoid drilling a groove across the top of the frame. and then elongated the other holes,  I had the holes on the inboard side just abut right, but not the outboard holes. 

 

The original outboard holes were made larger than the inboard holes, to allow for discrepancies in the frame and to allow wiggle room when installing the gearbox.  I templated the new holes off the old ones, but they were off enough to bind the bolts. Two bolts went in reluctantly, but the third bolt snapped off.  Luckily there was enough length sticking out of the gearbox to be grabbed by a pipe wrench. 

 

I've got the gearbox on the bench now.  I removed the busted bolt, installed the U-joint, and threaded in some studs (cut-off bolts with screwdriver slots cut into the ends) into the three holes that I'm using.  Tomorrow I will hoist the box in place, position it against the frame, and then inspect the outboard holes.  I will see where the holes need to be Dremeled some more to allow the bolts to go in straight.  I might even be able to back out the studs (screwdriver slots) and slip in the new bolts, one at a time, of course,   

 

I had to cut two inches off the steering shaft, in order for the U-joints to be within the 35-degree range.   Luckily I had bought two if the splined stubs, so I had a fabricator weld the new stub in place.  His going minimum is $35, but he only charged my $25 the first time.  The second time, he took pity on me and only charged $15.  When I need a bracket fabricated for the alternator and power steering pump, I know where to go.  That will be fun, designing a bracket.

 

I've proofed and spell-checked this post, but have a few letters left over :  erove ehm gong to r   You're welcome to use them. 

[builtfercomfort]

The anagram solver says

Mogor the Ogre

On To Evermore

Remote, Oregon

The Green Room

But there are a few letters left over.

[scotty t]

parallelogram steering is what most crs had from the 50's until they went to r&p

 

 

clickhere---> http://www.moogchassistraining.com/ss_steering_linkages_t.php

[DonaldSmith]

OK, parallelogram.  I get it.  Ackerman geometry, so that the inner wheel turns more than the outer wheel, using tie rods from the pitman arm to the steering knuckle arms on the wheels.  The distance between tie rod ends is less than the distance between the pivoting axes of the wheels.  These two distances are parallel.   Hey, that's really a trapezoid.  

 

I think the rack and pinion assembly does the same geometric thing, while replacing the steering gearbox, pitman arm, and tie rods.  

 

Meanwhile, I got concerned with all the holes I've drilled into the frame rails for the gearbox, not for the strength of the rails, since I am not drilling through the upper or lower surfaces.  But the bolts might try to pull through, even with giant washers.  So I'm fabricating some 1/8" plates for the inner and outer sides of the rails,with holes for the three through-bolts.  I have my gearbox on the bench, so I can be sure that the holes line up.  And I can tack weld the required spacers to the inboard plate so they will stay in position.

[DonaldSmith]

Here are some progress photos:

Steel plate for each side of frame:

 

 

Steel column end, with spline stub welded in, collar, and bushing.  The cheap plastic drain fitting fills the space between the bushing and the jacket.  

 

 

Steering column assembly: 

 

 

[builtfercomfort]

Those plates are a good idea to help with proper locating of the holes in the frame too.

[DonaldSmith]

]The plates showed the holes not quite right.  Much Dremeling today, trial and error fit.  Finally got the steering gear installed. 

 

[builtfercomfort]

If you had started with those plates, made correctly - world that be enough to do it again much quicker (maybe with an additional locating hole for positioning off the original holes) ? Applauding your pioneering efforts while thinking of the next guy to try this.

[DonaldSmith]

The plates would help early on.  I first made a wood template for the existing gear, based on the pitman shaft location. 

 

 

Then I located the new gear per the same pitman shaft location.  (This brought the input shaft too low to connect with the steering column.)  i should have made the end of the pitman arm the working point.  So I cobbled the wooden template. 

 

 

This would have been a good point for a steel plate.  The wood template was just too chewed up by then. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DonaldSmith]

Here are the steel plates, inboard with spacers tack-welded in position, and outboard:

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2014 by DonaldSmith

[DonaldSmith]

I've got to learn to downsize some of these photos. 

 

 

 

[DonaldSmith]

Steering shaft and U-joints are in!

 

[MiltYergens]

I have a castoff GM steering gear with arm and rods that was removed from 1941 Dodge. The Dodge's owner installed a Nova rear clip that was popular back in the day. The arm from the Dodge box was drilled out. Only the spline from the GM's arm was retained within a cylinder whose diameter fit into the Dodges drilled. The GM spline was inserted in the Dodge arm and welded (maybe the negative aspect of this modification). On the positive side, it opens up many more nix options.

[DonaldSmith]

Desperately searching for double groove pulleys.  Contacting my DeSoto Club sources.  Been advised that the double groove pulleys for the early 50's are scarce, since Chrysler made few cars of that vintage with power steering, maybe one per week.  But working on it. 

 

Backup plan:  Leave the single groove water pump pulley and alternator pulley, maybe even with the present wide belt.  Add a narrow pulley to the crankshaft pulley, where there is some room to add on.  Mount the power steering pump low, and run it of the second crankshaft pulley.  I mocked it up, and it seems doable, but the fan blades might be an issue.  If this layout works otherwise, I can cut the fan blades back.  I have a pusher fan as backup at low speeds, but it runs off my auxiliary battery, so I don't want to get rid of the belt-driven fan.

 

[DJ194950]

Have you looked at mounting to PS pump low on the other side?

Weld or bolt on a fabricated thin size pulley to the front of the crank pulley.

The PS lines will need to be longer but that is not any problem. You will just have have them made for you and this app.

[DonaldSmith]

I'll take another look at the passenger side, but as I remember it seemed quite cluttered with the fuel pump down low, the exhaust manifold above, and the radiator hose sneaking around the fan.  (That's my auxiliary battery at the bottom of the first photo.)

 

 

 

 

[Don Coatney]

What do you use the auxiliary battery for? 

[DonaldSmith]

I run 12 volts for the pusher fan (to avoid overheating in parades, etc.) and for accessories (cell phone, Garmin.)  Everything else on the car is 6 volts.  

 

The auxiliary battery is negative ground.  I get the 12 volts from the negative post of the main battery and the positive post of the auxiliary battery.  I have to insulate the negative of the 12 volts to avoid a 6-volt short, since the negative is from the "live" post of the main battery.

 

The 6-volt alternator charges the main battery, which has the most draw with the starter, etc.  I have to put the charger on the auxiliary battery from time to time.

 

Now, can I get rid of the auxiliary battery and hang the power steering pump in its place?  I'd rather not, but I suppose that I have to consider everything.   

[Guest bewillie]

I used SBC pullys from yogi's  3 grove crome crank pully #spc8963 and #8952 water pump.  took crank pully to machine shop and had hole in center enlarged to fit mopar hub.  Worked great. 

BW

[builtfercomfort]

I have helped make a double-groove pulley from two single- groove ones. Welded the two back-to-back and then cut out the dome part on one side, we had room to go back toward the water pump - weld the two stacked and cut off the outer dome if you want the new groove to the front.

We used a drill press in lieu of a lathe to true it up, a little hillbilly but it worked.

[DonaldSmith]

Per my latest post under "pulleys and belts", I've ordered add-on pulleys.  So I can keep my present pulleys and maybe even the belt, depending on where I relocate the alternator.   But thanks for the info.  A little ingenuity can solve big problems.  I know I'll need a little ingenuity before I'm done.. 

[builtfercomfort]

Any news on this? I'm still in the planning stages, trying to decide if a rack/pinion swap or this method might be better to get me power steering. This seems simpler - no messing with steering arm length to get full turning radius. Rack swap may improve stock steering geometry though, and there are more examples to look at.

Pondering...

[DonaldSmith]

Progress report:

 

I've reworked the "scoop" in the crossmember to make room for changing belts.  I'm waiting for the weather to warm up before putting the crank pulleys on.  I'll thread-lock the studs into the flange and distort the threads on the other side, so that the studs won't work loose.  Then the new pulley, dish side toward flange, then nuts to secure the pulley and act as spacers, then the existing pulley and damper.

 

I bought two sets of 555-5116 water pump pulley shims from JEGS, to match the half-inch that the crank pulley moves.  One set of holes was right on, but I had to drill out the center.  Regular wood-type hole saw, slightly oversize. 

 

I'm working on a bracket for the alternator.  I'll add a few stiffeners before I'm done.  This moves the bottom pivot of the alternator down and away from the engine.  It will be pure serendipity if the existing belt is long enough.  We'll see. 

 

 

Then it's onto a bracket for the power steering pump.  There are some bosses on the block that can be drilled and tapped.  Plus maybe a bolt at the front cover.

 

 

 

See, I've been reporting my pulley adventures in another thread, Pulleys and Belts.   When I get power-steering-pump-specific, i'll report back here.

Edited April 16, 2014 by DonaldSmith

[Don Coatney]

Would be nice if this project was all in one thread. Makes it much easier to follow. Perhaps a moderator can combine all the threads dealing with this modification.