Oil modifications

[Clearfieldsgarage]

I modified my 230 by resricting the cam bearing galleys and filling the spray holes on the bottom of the rods. I opened up the oil galley plug in the middle of the block on the distributor side to accept a fitting to run a line to an oil filter. The galley forms an H and I was able to put a plug so that there was a definite feed and return for an oil filter.

My question is, what are the two oil galley holes that dump directly into the pan? I never stumbled across the pressure relief valve and maybe this is part of it. Seems like a massive oil leak in the system. Do I plug these? Sorry for the lack of pics

[Clearfieldsgarage]

So I did quite a bit of reading. I always heard that the oiling system was the weak point on these engines. The fact that I had two sets of rods, one with cam spray holes and ones without, i found value in deleting that to build pressure in the wrist pin. I haven't found anything about the partial flow being better than full flow and this has been the nastiest sludge and carbon riddled engines I've ever worked on. It did get used and hard in farm truck conditions and would run even though it was waaaaay out of specs and at one point went years with a broken valve spring stuck together with sludge. I thought I would give the motor a break and improve it's oil filtration. Full flow just seems to make more sense to me. I'd like to know why not. This motor is built a little hot with the block cut .045 and the head at .040, balanced rotating assembly full groove bearings, mild lightening of the flywheel, mild exhaust porting and a little unshrouding of the valves, custom intake, 2 barrel carburetor, dual exhaust, balanced and polished crank, hei, pcv, 12 volts, alternator. I will dog this motor. I hope to have it and drive it regularly for another 10 years.

[Merle Coggins]

There's nothing wrong with the oiling system on these engines, until someone goes and alters it. How do you expect to get lubrication to your camshaft bearings and lifter to lobe surfaces if you restrict the oil holes for the cam and plug the oiling hole in the rods? I see short cam life in your future. ANd if you think a bypass oil filter doesn't filter any oil, try leaving the cap slightly loose and see how much oil pumps out if it in a short time. You'll be supprised how much oil flows through that filter. It's not a bad filter system. It's just different than what you are used to.

 

Merle

[Don Coatney]

The oiling system is weak only if you exceed the recommended engine RPM's for an extended time. For short extended high RPM's such as a pulling tractor the best thing to do is cross drill the crankshaft to increase the oil volume to the rod and main bearings. As Merle mentioned plugging the rod squirt holes will shorten cam life as that is the only lubrication to the cam lobes.If full flow oil filtration is your objective it is possible to modify the oil pump to push all oil through a filter before it goes to the engine.

[41/53dodges]

Full flow oiling won't gain anything appreciable. It's really nice to have on some engines, but since an engine really doesn't create much crap in the oil for a given amount of time the filter keeps up just fine. Another perk, seeing as the filter only filters the excess pressure from the pump, it is allowed to have a finer filter, that's why a bypass filter kit is available for modern vehicles too, particularly highway trucks and such. I think Don and Merle have the oil modding thing taken care of, but like they said stock is pretty much the best formation except for super high performance. These old flatties were darn near indestructable as-is, with the addition of modern oils I could easily see one lasting well over 100k.

PS

-I think it's the chevy stovebolts that had oiling issues, those have come up a time or two on here

 

-Josh

[Don Coatney]

So I did quite a bit of reading. I always heard that the oiling system was the weak point on these engines.

 

 

Where did you read and or hear that the oiling system is weak? I have never read that and nobody has ever told me that and I talk to a lot of seasoned Mopar flathead gurus.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Build the engine right, don't beat it or over rev it, change the oil at the correct intervals and the engine will last as long as you will need it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Gee Bob...does that mean I have to cut back on my front wheel lifting burn outs..even BS in moderation is good....think of the decades this engine was produced...if there was a weak point it would have been quickly addressed by ma Mopar...as it was not..the problem is only in most folks heads..and if anyone is trying to make a 10K turner out of the flathead...they got more money to burn than they have sense to begin with...and who knows what it is in their ego they are trying to prove...

[Dodgeb4ya]

My brother trained me what not to do with a flathead Tim. I kept driving mine with no problems. He kept putting engines in his. IMO flatheads hopped up sound kinda stupid and really don't haul ass either for all the $$$ and effort.

Hope I don't PO anyone!

[TodFitch]

Gee Bob...does that mean I have to cut back on my front wheel lifting burn outs..even BS in moderation is good....think of the decades this engine was produced...if there was a weak point it would have been quickly addressed by ma Mopar...as it was not..the problem is only in most folks heads..and if anyone is trying to make a 10K turner out of the flathead...they got more money to burn than they have sense to begin with...and who knows what it is in their ego they are trying to prove...

I agree. They made a number of modifications during the first couple of years of production, including some to the oiling system. But once they got it sorted out, basically by 1935, the changes over the years were more to take advantage of higher octane gasoline than anything else. Nearly a four decade run on the production of that engine. So if oiling had been a problem it was well sorted out by the time your engine was built.

[greg g]

So just how is your valve train lubricated???  The only internal oil dump I am aware of is the return line from the bypass , and the little oil tube for the timing chain.  Can you post pictures of the other unrestricted oil return??  Are you saying you did not find the the pressure relief valve in your modified system?  I know whee mine is and I believe all flathead 6 engines share the same style and location of this assembly, its not a mystery.  What problem did you identify that your modifications are supposed to correct???

[Plymouthy Adams]

as your addy shows PA as your locale and if you did wok on these as local cars...the pure fact that the PA grade paraffin based oil in conjunction with the stated farm equipment that may or may not have had a thermostat to get the engine to correct temp...fact that it may have run but short treks to the field back to the shed and never ever got to temp to remove condensation rom the block...yeah...these are the very contributors to sludge more so than any design or lubrication flow problem...and for the record, the oil pressure valve spring and plunger is not near the oil  pump but on the drivers side of the block.  The big removable plug is your access point..a good factory tech manual will be a world of information and assistance as you work on these engines...

[_shel_ny]

I never stumbled across the pressure relief valve and maybe this is part of it.

 

Original set up has the filter (bypass filter) return line connected above the pressure relief valve. Oil from the filter is allowed to return to the pan when sufficient pressure is available to move the relief valve plunger out.

 

The relief valve and spring are behind a square headed plug, just out of view, at the center bottom In the 4th pic

 

 

Edit: by original set up, I mean when it was installed. Not to be interpreted as all were original equipment, as it seems many were installed as an option.

Edited November 19, 2013 by shel_ny

[Don Coatney]

click here------> http://clearfieldsgarage.com/

 

and here----->https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1429+N.+Front+St.+Philadelphia,+PA&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=39.972592,-75.134853&cbp=13,97.8,0,0,0&cbll=39.972617,-75.135096&hl=en&ved=0CAsQ2wU&sa=X&ei=qIeLUq-YINC2twfalYDABg

[_shel_ny]

It's always sunny in Philadelphia. Vinyl across the street. Bearings one street over.

 

 

 

Edit: and you could go over to the Fishtown Beverage Center and get some Nirvana water bottled about 12 miles or so (as the crow flies) from me here in NY
 

Edited November 19, 2013 by shel_ny

[Plymouthy Adams]

I see now..the absence of handlebars and sissy bars has him confused with component location.....

[Clearfieldsgarage]

I'm still trying to figure out why people like to get so worked up about a technical question. Thank you shel for your informative response. I am missing the pressure relief valve. So I am assuming that that is where I have located my oil lines. I didn't completely cut off the cam bearings, I restricted them to 1/16" which is what mopar supplied as a rebuild reccomendatiin from what I have read. Also my later rods did not have squirt holes. And the new bearings did not have holes for the squirters either. The oil spewing out of the sides of the rod journals should splash all over everything. Let's see if I can get facts without attitude. I didn't think I was being disrespectful when I posted.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Not so sure you were being singled out for your comments but more to the other sources you rad/found that made these comments.  Guess you were caught in the middle and got blind sided a bit....lot of folks have little understanding to these od engine.  Fact that they were ahead of their times is purely evident by the many survivors running the stock setup yet today.

[greg g]

So how are you planning to address the bypassing of the pressure relief assembly?  With out it these pumps will put out about 85 psi.  may be ok for some of our modern vehicles but not good for gaskets and seals on these older lump.  You should be looking at 55/60 max.  Is the spot where the relief was located in the block what your were counting as an unrestricted return??  The oil in the cast in galley of the drivers side of the engine is usually the spot for feeding the filter and the oil pressure gauge.  as it is usually down stream of the relief valve pressure there should be considered operating pressure.

 

Your original post said you filled the squirt holes in the rods, your last post said they didn't have them.  Still would like to know how you plan on lubing the cam, lifters etc.  

Edited November 20, 2013 by greg g

[TodFitch]

So I did quite a bit of reading. I always heard that the oiling system was the weak point on these engines. . .

 

I'm still trying to figure out why people like to get so worked up about a technical question. . .

 

While I harbor the strong suspicion that the oiling system is not a weak point, I'd like to read what you read to see if it changes my opinion. Can you list the references, and if on the Internet, post links?

 

Thanks!

[Clearfieldsgarage]

Thanks Greg for the pressure idea. I am using the relief valve areas for the feed and return. I had two sets of rods. The set from the later motor did not have squirt holes but my set of older rods, which were already reconditioned did, so I filled them. The theory from what I have heard is that the oil pushing out of the sides of the rod bearings will be adequate for the cam lobes. The lifters are supplied from the area inside of the valve covers. I am trying to think what gaskets actually come in contact with pressurized oil.

[greg g]

rear main, front crank seal to timing chain cover, flex hose to the oil pressure gauge and the gauge itself.  I can;t remember if there is a welch plug on an oil casting somewhere.

[Clearfieldsgarage]

Written by David Pollock. Excerpted from Chapter 14 "L-6 Engine Rebuild"in Dodge Pickups: History and Restoration Guide 1918-1971.

Stock rebuild:

This is a straight-forward job of returning all wearing and gasket surfaces to factory specifications. Done correctly, a rebuilt engine should be as good or better than new — no green castings, that’s for sure! The services of a machine shop specializing in engine work will be required. If you are prepared to do the dirty work and reassembly, a rebuild can be done for about $600, bur don’t be surprised if it runs to twice that amount.

Most people will want to use the engine block that is in their truck. Check the block for signs of trouble before you are totally committed. While cleaning, look for the cracks that are most likely to occur on either side of the distributor due to a frozen water jacket or through the fuel pump opening from careless handling or a collision. Check the area around exhaust valve guides, looking down into the block after removing valves. Chrysler L-6 blocks were not prone to cracking, but it pays to check. A careful visual inspection is usually sufficient. If you suspect a crack, fill the water jacket with kerosene and the crack will show up for sure.

If the engine has unusual wear or damage to the crankshaft, check the alignment of the main bearing seats. A problem here an be corrected by align-boring. Do not reuse a connecting rod that has spun a bearing shell. Check all rods for alignment and trueness of the bearing seat. A simple test for rod alignment is to swing two rods on one wrist pin and see if any light shows between the big-end flanges.

Chemical cleaning of the block is a good idea. Bear in mind that the cam bearings will be destroyed in the process so have a new set on hand before you start. Replace all core plugs with new ones.

Before boring, choose an oversize piston that will compensate for cylinder wear and have these on hand.

If the engine has had a history of head gasket failure, it would be wise to deck the block. This is the same process as cylinder head resurfacing. It’s a lot easier to do this now than later, and has the added bonus of narrowing the valve seats a little.

The rest of the rebuild follows standard procedure. You would be wise to use the later, rotor-type oil pump as it pumps a higher volume of oil. Watch for oil pipe on prewar engines; the way that looks right, isn’t! The counterweight next to the number 3 main bearing will hit. I learned this the hard way and even then I almost installed it backwards a second time. Follow tightening specs carefully.

A low-budget balancing job can be done right at home with an ordinary balance-beam scale. Find the lightest piston and pin assembly, and remove material from the others until they are all the same. Do the same for the rods. If you really want a smooth runner, a professional, dynamic-balance job, including fly-wheel and clutch, is in order. That’s a job for a pro, but it may be worth it if your engine has been built using parts from many other engines.

There is little left to luck in this approach to engine repair. Retighten the cylinder head and break it in carefully. With routine maintenance it should last as long as you can afF**d gas to run it.

Incidentally, there is no reason why these engines will not run well on unleaded gas. The stellite seats on the exhaust valves were meant for long, trouble-free service. I ran one engine for years on no-lead propane without any problem at all.

Parts interchange:

On all sixes, except certain industrial and truck engines, valve guides are interchangeable, as are exhaust seats, wrist pin bushings and oil pumps. Rear oil seals are of two or three designs and are sometimes interchangeable, but watch out for a slight space if you are using a later seal on the 201. This space is between the metal seal holder and the block, and can be filled with silicone. Gaket sets are of two sizes for the two different-size blocks. There is an extra water passage at the front of the head on 1951 and newer engines; this is part of the later bypass system and eliminates the need for extra plumbing.

Crankshaft bearings are the same for all 3 1/2" bore blocks. The 3 3/8 and 3 7/16" bore blocks share slightly larger bearings. Crankshafts within each block size can be interchanged, but you must use the rods that match the crankshaft. I have often put a Dodge crankshaft into a Plymouth block for an extra 13 cubic inches.

Performance modifications:

The Mopar sixes will respond to all the traditional hot-rod tricks and they needn’t spit their insides all over the street, either. As you read on, you may think that I have a trophy room full of bent and broken con rods. Not so! I blew my one and only rod bearing on a cold January day in 1959 while driving a 1935 Plymouth coach on farm roads. I was not old enough to have a license, nor did I recognize that clunking noise. I learned fast and have gone straight ever since.

If you’re going to boost the horsepower and performance of your Dodge truck L-6 engine, you’ll need to improve the oiling. This is done in several ways. The first is to increase the size of the groove in the main bearing shells. The technique here is to clamp the bearing shells in a four-jawed lathe chuck by bolting two surplus center main caps together. Make the groove in the bearing shell approximately 3 times as wide and twice as deep as that cut by the factory. It will then match the diameter of the oil hole in the block. This should be done to all 4 mains.

With a greater volume of oil coming from the larger grooves in the main bearing shells you can plug the squirt holes in the rods. This little hole tends to deflate the oil cushion around the bearing, especially during the power stroke. With the added oiling there will be plenty of throw-off for cylinder walls.

It is also prudent to install a new rotor type pump. Putting a 1/4" spacer behind the relief valve spring gives an additional boost in oil pressure.

With these modifications, the oil pressure gauge will show about 40 lb at idle and between 60 and 70 lb at 30 mph. If your block has a full-flow filter as later Chrysler and DeSoto blocks (to 1954) do, great! If it has the bypass type, make sure it is correctly hooked up. The drain goes from the bottom of the canister through the pressure relief valve (hole faces straight up). Be satisfied that it is not reducing pressure.

If you are choosing a crankshaft, use one from 1955 or newer. If it is still standard, so much the better. Don’t forget you can interchange shafts in the 217 and 230 engines as long as you use all the rods that go with the crankshaft. Same with all 3 3/8 and 3 7/16" engines. Early shafts have 4 bolts in the flange, later have 8, but all flywheels fit, with the exception of some Plymouth Hydrive models. There is a ring-gear-starter change between 1956 and 1957. They do not interchange. Select components that match the bell housing you are using.

Compression on these engines can be raised as high as 10.5:1. In one case, I planed an Edmunds aluminum head as far as possible. Unfortunately, head gasket failure was chronic, but it was fun while it lasted!

You will probably wish to be conservative — say, an 8.0:1 compression ratio, which was stock for 1959. It helps to polish the chamber in the head before starting out. Compression can be raised by 3 methods: first, by milling the stock head 0.060 to 0.125"; second, by installing a head from a later engine; finally, by installing an aftermarket head such as Edmunds or Fenton. If you use a later head, watch for the extra water passage on engines from 1951 and later. When installing a later head on an earlier engine the later gasket must also be used. On heads from 1956-1959, the temperature gauge fitting is smaller, but it can be drilled out and retapped to use the fitting for your truck.

Aftermarket heads are rare, but not impossible to find. I purchased a brand new fenton for $75 within ten miles of home and found a good used Edmunds at a swap meet for $80. Unfortunately, these vintage speed parts are not being remanufactured. With these heads use AC44FF spark plugs.

Watch out if you are swapping a head from an engine with a different bore size or you may wind up reducing compression. For example, a 3 7/16 bore engine has a larger chamber than a 3 3/8 bore engine. On the other hand, you can raise compression this way by reversing the operation. If in doubt, "C.C." the chambers.

Good gasket surfaces are an absolute must!

Years ago, I carried a spark plug wrench so I could open up the gap of number six spark plug after every 5500+rpm run. It is hard to look cool doing this on the side of the road, so check valve clearances.

Don’t forget the tightening sequence and retighten the head as soon as it’s warm and again after 500 miles.

Better induction:

Better induction really wakes these engines up— even a two-barrel carburetor as used on 1957-1959 Dodge cars helps. Edmunds and Fenton both made manifolds for both sizes of blocks, or you can make a manifold using your stock cast-iron one as a base. Three-ton trucks used a dual carburetor manifold which also had a dual-exhaust headers. It works well, but is bulky and heavy.

Carburetors are a cut-and-try proposition as big is not always better. I would recommend the Zenith carburetor as found on International trucks of the 1940s. They are beautifully made with a brass-piston accelerator pump and have replaceable venturis, which come in a number of sizes. Jets also come in several sizes, assuming you can find a source. Studebaker used a slightly smaller version of the Carter Ball and Ball which would not work well on a dual-carburetor system.

Exhaust:

Any improvements will help. A simple split manifold is good. Fenton headers are nice to look at and work well, too. Headers can be made from two stock manifolds or from tubing. The fact that the engines have six exhaust ports is a plus there. Put on nonrestrictive mufflers (remember the Blue Bottle), and a good, clean exhaust system and this part of the job is done.

Porting:

The most significant improvement to be made here is the matching of the ports with the manifold passages. Careful use of templates and a rotary file will do this job. This is a simple, but exacting, operation as carelessness can ruin your block. Even a stock rebuild will benefit from port matching.

Clearances:

Slightly greater clearances are desirable in a performance engine to insure good lubrication and allow for expansion due to greater heat. Allow 0.004" for piston skirt clearance and between 0.0015 and 0.002" for bearings. Set valve tappets at 0.002" over factory specs.

Camshafts:

I have found the stock camshaft to be adequate and the ones used between 1957 and 1959 are supposed to be the best. A mild street grind would probably help. Iskendarian and Howard Cams used to offer camshafts for these engines, and most cam grinders have performance specs in their files.

Spark:

Use a 1951 or later distributor. Try to get a vacuum-advance unit which has a removable plug,allowing an adjustment of the amount of tension against the diaphragm. Road testing and adjustment will eliminate pre-ignition. Quality of fuel, humidity and altitude as well as compression and driving habits all enter into this adjustment. It’s another cut-and-try operation, but worth every minute spent. Four degrees initial advance to 36 degrees total works for a 251 ci engine that a friend runs in his 1958 Dodge coupe.

I used to love to watch a B-modified circle track racer powered by a 1954 Chrysler six beat the ohv competition. I have always admired the spirit of someone who dares to be different, especially if he’s a winner.

At this present time, I am running a 1957 Canadian Plymouth engine; originally a 215, it now displaces 260 ci due to a 3 7/16" plus a 0.060" overbore. It has been ported and polished, but runs stock carburetion and exhaust. Performance and mileage are impressive, and the modified oiling system adds a degree of reliability.

So there it is, you don’t need a Hemi to keep up with traffic. Enjoy that Dodge L-6. Overhead valves are just a passing fad.

Written by David Pollock. Excerpted from Chapter 14 "L-6 Engine Rebuild"in Dodge Pickups: History and Restoration Guide 1918-1971.

[Clearfieldsgarage]

Sorry for the massive post but there's some info to chew on. I didn't go three times the size on the groove since I feel like it would leave very little bearing support.

[Clearfieldsgarage]

I don't quite see how pressurized oil is being forced on the rear main seal and the front is a massive return into the pan.