Carter Carb, Fuel Filter & Fuel Line

[HanksB3B]

The thread: http://p15-d24.com/topic/34446-diagnose-this/ is getting way too long and now that my truck is running better than ever, I'd like to thank everyone that helped me out. Ive still got a few "I could have done better" issues and this one is one of them.  So please feel free to review and comment either by instinct or experience.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for Looking,

 

Hank 

 

 

[Don Coatney]

I dont believe the factory ever used a rubber line from the fuel pump to the carburetor. Pictured is how I ran a steel line. I did not follow the factory routing but I elected to route the line in front of the exhaust manifold. By doing this I do not use a heat shield (even though there is one installed in this photo it was removed once the engine was installed) and I have never had a problem with fuel overheating.

 

[wallytoo]

what don said. the only rubber piece used was a short section from the frame rail to the pump. the remainder was steel line.

it appears you have a hard line directly from the tank to the pump. you may run into flex breakage at some point. maybe not. that's where the stock short section of rubber fuel line goes, to attach from the hard line at the frame rail to the pump.

Edited November 6, 2013 by wallytoo

[HanksB3B]

Wow Don wish I could bend tubing like that (picture is going into my source photo folder for sure) but  I don't see a fuel filter so I'm thinkinjg you have located it elsewhere? Your vacuume line wraps around the front of the engine and behind the waterpump. Is that the way it came out of the factory ? 

 

Wally good to know about how they were originnally set up. It has a decent amount of flex .  If I had to bet I'd say it won't break.

 

Thanks,

 

Hank 

[Don Coatney]

I do have a fuel filter between the tank and the fuel pump mounted on the inside of the frame rail under the drivers seat. I also have the screen inside the fish bowl on the fuel pump. The original vacuum line ran across the top of the head. I thought it was unsightly so I moved it.

 

[HanksB3B]

It is a bit Chitty Chitty Bang Bang across the top in my opinion.  I might well take your lead oin this one too.

 

Hank 

Edited November 6, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Jeff Balazs]

Wow Don wish I could bend tubing like that (picture is going into my source photo folder for sure) but  I don't see a fuel filter so I'm thinkinjg you have located it elsewhere? Your vacuume line wraps around the front of the engine and behind the waterpump. Is that the way it came out of the factory ? 

 

Wally good to know about how they were originnally set up. It has a decent amount of flex .  If I had to bet I'd say it won't break.

 

Thanks,

 

Hank 

Hank;

I think it should definitely be a flex line.....if you were to say...... break a motor mount.... you might find out why in a hurry. The way it is now it may work but hard lines should never be intentionally subjected to stresses like this. And stress fractures have a way of happening when you least expect them. The factory did have this covered.

Besides the way you have it is at least 500 points off at a car show where the judges actually know their stuff.   You'll shoot your eye out kid!

 

Jeff

All joking aside I think you ought to give this some more thought.

[HanksB3B]

I definately will and would like to see more photos of what I should be aiming for.

 

Thanks,

 

Hank 

[Don Coatney]

Hank;

I think it should definitely be a flex line.....if you were to say...... break a motor mount.... you might find out why in a hurry. The way it is now it may work but hard lines should never be intentionally subjected to stresses like this. And stress fractures have a way of happening when you least expect them. The factory did have this covered.

Besides the way you have it is at least 500 points off at a car show where the judges actually know their stuff.   You'll shoot your eye out kid!

 

Jeff

All joking aside I think you ought to give this some more thought.

Not sure if I understand your message? A flex line should be used between the frame mounted fuel line beside the radiator to the fuel pump as the engine will move. But between the fuel pump and the carburator there is no movement hence no stress.

[Jeff Balazs]

Don;

I was referring to the line between the frame and the fuel pump. You are absolutely correct about the line between a stock fuel pump and the carb.

Jeff

[Scruffy49]

Here is as close to stone stock as you're likely to find in a working truck. Engine has been in place since 1958 or so... Soft line to the pump was replaced around 1994 and then again a few years ago. Could not find the oem type with screw on fittings.

 

 

 

 

I do have a heat shield for that fuel pump floating around here somewhere. And that is an AC filter unit at the carb. I found a Willys Overland one in the garage that would look neater on that carb. Lisa still wants to keep the 69 D100, so now I have to figure out how to make a hot air choke carb and a cable choke carb work off the hot air circuit...on whichever L6 block I end up using. Old crusty in the truck is a blown 218, old crusty outside the truck is a stuck 230.

[HanksB3B]

Thanks Scruffy.  So the steel fuel line is coming from the tank on the left side of the truck, crosses at the radiator hum.  Jeff, (in picture form whan you have time please) how did you route yours ? I'm not so worried about the 500 points.  Do you think my rig is safe to drive like I've got it at least for a while ?

 

Thanks,

 

Hank   

Edited November 6, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

I will have to see if I have photos that show the routing with the body off. It's a bit hard to see once the body is on. Mine is in the stock location running along the drivers side frame rail and on the crossmember under the radiator. I deviated slightly back at the tank where I have added a electric fuel pump and pre-filter.

 

I wasn't even going to bring up the way yours is routed. That's another 1000 points off.  

I wouldn't want to say if yours is safe the way it is. I shouldn't think so?

Jeff

[B1B Keven]

Hank,

Mine is routed just like Sruffy's. Hard line under the radiator, then a short piece of rubber hose.

 

I also have some fuel pumps if you are in the market.

 

 

Keven

 

 

[JBNeal]

from a previous post, the steel fuel line just needs to clear the manifolds to reduce heat absorption.  Comparing the AC & Carter fuel filter setups, the AC has a more robust bowl clamp that is less prone to problems from vibration.  At any rate, if the fuel bowl is installed and doesn't line up in the level orientation, the trick that's worked for me is to put some Teflon tape on the brass fitting, thereby increasing the taper diameter allowing for another stab at screwing everything down as required.  One or two turns of Teflon should be adequate; any more than that and ya might risk cracking the fuel filter base trying to force the issue.

 

As for the flex line at the frame, don't bother with the NOS units from the 40s & 50s that are on eBay.  I've accumulated a bundle of those over the years, and they last less than a year as the ethanol in the gas dries the old rubber very quickly & they split open.  Brass hose barbs are available that can be attached to a length of modern rubber fuel injection line and that works nicely, costs about $5 to make what ya need.  You can go krazy and have a fuel line made with crimped fittings at a hydraulic hose supplier for about $20 if ya want a factory look.  I recently replaced the fuel pressure gauge sending unit hose on my '02 Ram CTD as I relocated the sender closer to the firewall, requiring a hose that was about a foot longer than the one that was supplied with the sender.  The guy at the shop said the cost was in the crimped fittings and setup time as the length of hose was pennies in comparison.

 

as a point of forum use, is there a limit to the amount of information that can be included in a thread?  Build threads can stretch over years covering a wide range of topics; why can't a repair thread do the same thing for a truck that has already been built and is having issues after several years of use?  Call me crazy, but I figgered having a handful of connected threads centering around one vehicle to share as well as to collect information as being an efficient use of the forum.

[Don Coatney]

Don;

I was referring to the line between the frame and the fuel pump. You are absolutely correct about the line between a stock fuel pump and the carb.

Jeff

Thank you, that clears it up

[HanksB3B]

Hmm Alot to think about doing here...some very good pointers...and photos.  I sort of remember removing a steel gas line from ujnder the radiator. What tools do I need to do a job worth doing well on my steel gas lines and vacuume lines.  I've used cheap tools that break, but would like to use tools that do the best job possible.  Someone like KD Tools must make something reasonably priced that could do the job well. JB the Carter Glass Bowl has now become a paperweight. 

 

Thanks,

 

Hank

Edited November 6, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Don Coatney]

Buy a good quality double flaring tool. I have had this one pictured below for about 45 years. I bought a cheap china made tubing bender and it works well once you get the hang of it. Once you remove your old tubing use it to practice making double flares and bends. When you feel comfortable then bend and flare your new tubing. And as the saying goes measure twice, flare once.

 

[ggdad1951]

just to toss another picture on here, zoom in and you can see the hose on FEF.

 

[HanksB3B]

Maybe I can find a flaring tool at a Swap Meet.  Mark and everyone else that got it right, That looks good!

 

Hank 

Edited November 17, 2013 by HanksB3B

[wallytoo]

the photos show the fittings on the pump. the fitting to the right is the one that attaches to the rubber flex line from the frame. the fitting on the left has been replaced with a hard line to the carb/filter. the flex line is secured with a threaded fitting, not a hose clamp.

[Young Ed]

Here you go Hank http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Point-TFM-5-Metric-Double-Flaring-Tool-Kit-USA-Snap-On-Tools-/221308719231?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item338707107f&vxp=mtr

 

Edit: sorry that ones metric. Check ebay for the inch version. I paid about that much for mine.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Young Ed

[48Dodger]

Using a rubber fuel line to the carb has been the cause of many a car-b-ques. You don't want to do that if you can help it. A local farmer set his field on fire....cause was a short 2.5 inch rubber hose to carb from the hardline. He sold me the truck for a dollar, said he never wanted to see that piece a junk again. Was at the racetrack, a street stock had used a 7 inch rubber fuel line to the carb. The end of the rubber line had caught the edge of the hardline. This caused the inside of the rubber hose to be cut and released a small cresent shaped piece of rubber into the carb. During the first lap of the race, the engine became fuel starved and wouldn't stay running. We opened the hood. He wiggled the fuel line to see if it was loose, allowing air into it the line. The hose end split, letting the hose slide off the carb....with back pressure in the plugged fuel line, it poured fuel onto the hot manifold and started a fire. Now, 110 octane burns in a lazy manner and we were able to put it out....but oh the mess....not a good way to miss a race.

 

48D         

[HanksB3B]

Sorry to ask fifty questions.  Does anyone happen to have a cab-off picture (a good description may work) of the actual proper routing of the gas line from the tank thru or the attachment points of the frame where it then right angles under the radiator and up to the fuel pump ? Can I save myself some work by buying steel line that is already flared ? Any hints as to length ? Is the line 5/16" dia.  

 

It is possible that there is nothing wrong with the sending unit and either the cork has lost it's floatition, or because I did not sand the powdercoat off the surface where the sending unit mounts to the tank there is no ground,  or the gauge itself is bad.

 

As far as removing the fuel tank sending unit: What should I do ?

 

I'm concerned about safety and have heard an empty gas tank is more dangerous than a full one. Do I need to empty my tank and let it air out for a few days ? 

 

Do I remove the large notched retainer by tapping a screwdriver so that it turns counterclockwise ?

 

Would it be a bad idea to not empty the tank and just proceed ?

 

How do I use a multi-meter to see if the unit is working properly ?

 

I think I saved Merles write up on providing a ground wire and I did purchase a 6V J,C. Whitney sending unit just in case mine proves to not be salvageable.

 

 

Thanks, 

 

Hank 

[Young Ed]

I can answer some of that. Yes you can buy premade lengths of fuel line. I suggest the PVC coated line. Its not much more $ and is easier to bend into shape without kinking. You may need to buy 2 lengths and use 1 union. Not a super big deal but it is 1 more junction which is one more possible leak. Mines been that way for 13 years and its been fine. I do suggest trying to get that union somewhere it can be tightened once you have everything back together.

It is possible the cork has died as ethanol eats them. Also possible you don't have a good ground due to the powdercoat. You should not need to empty the tank unless you are planning to do something that would create heat or sparks. Just removing the sending unit is ok. Typical way if you don't have the proper tool is 2 screwdrivers. One locked into the tab and a second to push with. You kinda make an X with them. Probably a challenge to do through the floor. To me if you are not dropping the tank no need to empty it.