rkldesign Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I am in the process of getting a 1951 Dodge Route Van up and running. So what are your thoughts on restoring the 230cu and using the van as a daily driver? Can the rear end ring and pinion be switched out for better freeway speeds? If so which gearing is best? Thanks, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 If you want, I can move this to the truck side where there might be more knowledge about this vehicle. OTOH, a lot of people look at all posts in all forums on the site so you might get a knowledgeable person viewing anyway. I used my '33 as a daily driver for four years when I first got it (actually was my only car for a bunch of that time). So I am of the opinion that you can use an old car in daily service. Of course it was only 40 years old at that time and the national speed limit was 55 so people were only doing 60 or 65 on the freeways. If stock, it will take more periodic maintenance than a newer vehicle. And it won't perform like a modern car. I personally think a stock vehicle of that era can be safely driven on todays roads. But you will get others urging brake, suspension and driveline updates. I don't recall a freeway actually getting into Napa. How much of your daily driving would be taking out of town and onto a freeway? The driving environment you will be subjecting the vehicle to will be a consideration when considering what you will be comfortable driving. And, I can't help it, but here is my one joke for your area (probably very old and stale where you live): What is the difference between Napa and Sonoma? Answer: You go to Sonoma for the wine and NAPA for car parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Soto Frank Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Short answer: "yes, as long as you get the mechanicals in proper operating condition, and drive the vehicle within its design limitations. I would assume a 1951 vintage delivery vehicle is geared low ( 4.0 to 5.0:1 range), and won't be happy at speeds over 40-45 MPH. Handling would be another issue, with that tall boxy body." I've maintained my trusty, rusty '41 De Soto ( all stock, unrestored, 4.11 rear, 228 cid six) as a driver vehicle since getting it 15 years ago. I have toured extensively with it, and it is now coming-up on 106,000 miles. It is incredibly reliable. Gas, oil, tires. Good Luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Thanks Guys, Yes the joke is funny and it has some truth to it to, as to old Napa car parts that is. I have located many old cars as I drive around Napa and wish I had endless cash to walk up and offer to buy some of these heaps and restore them. Most of my driving will be around town as I will use it as a marketing and promo van for my small business. Occasionally I will get on the freeway here but it is for a short distance. I know that I can update the distributor electrical system to be lower maintenance and add some gauges to keep the old ones honest. The rear end gearing is 4.89, will I be able to change it out to a slightly better gearing without changing the whole rear end? ( pinion-9 ring-44) I also have to change out the wheels as they are widow makers. (Split rims) Any suggestion on how to find some newer rims to fit this van? Thanks, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Soto Frank Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Thanks Guys, Yes the joke is funny and it has some truth to it to, as to old Napa car parts that is. I have located many old cars as I drive around Napa and wish I had endless cash to walk up and offer to buy some of these heaps and restore them. Most of my driving will be around town as I will use it as a marketing and promo van for my small business. Occasionally I will get on the freeway here but it is for a short distance. I know that I can update the distributor electrical system to be lower maintenance and add some gauges to keep the old ones honest. The rear end gearing is 4.89, will I be able to change it out to a slightly better gearing without changing the whole rear end? ( pinion-9 ring-44) I also have to change out the wheels as they are widow makers. (Split rims) Any suggestion on how to find some newer rims to fit this van? Thanks, Richard Oh boy. I will further add that I have been into the distributor on the De Soto once (when I first got the car, 15 years and 40,000 miles ago - how is that for "lower maintenance" ?), and all the stock gauges work and are reasonably accurate. As for the wheels & tires, how many lugs are your wheels ? If they are eight-lug, you might have some options. If the rim does NOT separate in the center-channel ( drop-center), it is NOT a "widow-maker". If it is a two-piece or three-piece, where the outer sidewall of the rim comes-off, this is simply a multi-piece rim. They work. Depending on rear-end configuration, width, springing, you may be able to update it with a later rear, with better R&P ratios... but don't go too high... that 230 is a sturdy, torquey engine, but the step-van body is FAR from aerodynamic; you're going to need some gearing to help the engine move the beast around. Suggest you get it going well in its stock form and get used to it before you go making mods... Edited September 10, 2013 by De Soto Frank 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 As I tell people that look at my 69 D100 and my wife's 66 Dart that are both year round daily drivers, "They were daily drivers when they were new so there is no reason that they can't be now!". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 You could always leave the rear as it is and upgrade to a 5 speed with OD. The 70% OD would give you more relaxed rpm for your occasional freeway jaunts, and increased cruising speed (60) or so, while still giving you good around town driveability. I'm guessing that you will not be using it loaded to its design capacity, as such you might even want to consider removing a couple leaves from the springs to give you a bit more comfortable unladen-ed ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Greg, I was hoping to leave the rear end as it is since it is a independent suspension system. What 5 speed would bolt up to a 230cu? I gather the stick shift will have to be relocated. You are right it would not be loaded as it was intended and I would like to lower its stance for look and handling. J.R., Thanks for your comment, I was thinking that at the time I wrote my question but wanted to find out if others used their trucks/cars as daily drivers with out type of fuels today and hints to any mild upgrades to make the flathead run better without changing too much of the original design. As for the wheels, I am not sure what I have, there is a ring that mates with the tire bead and has a dove-tail break in it at one point of the circumference. The center part of the wheel looks to be riveted to the rim part. I like the style of the wheel and it is a six lug pattern. 16" wheels and would like to put radials on the beast if I can. You guys are great and I appreciate all the wisdom and info. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 do a search for 5 speed or 5 spd, on this site. a fellow is selling adapters he is listed in the vendors area of this site. Biggest bang for the buck for the engine is raising compression ratio by milling the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Thanks Greg, will do a search. If any of you guys are interested I have an Instagram account under the name "Dodgeroutevan" and I am posting images of my project there. It seems to be the easiest to take a photo and instantly post and write a comment from my iphone. I just posted images of my wheels for you guys to see them and make any suggestions on tires or new wheels. Thanks, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shepard Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Get it going. I'd love to see it next year at the Clements BBQ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 gotta be an instagram user to see it. Thanks but no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4852dodge Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 The rims on your truck are the same as the other one tons. As long as the locking ring and groove are in good shape you will have no problem. There are no modern subistitutes for the rims. There may be a different ratio from a one ton axle out there but check a Hollenders interchange book to be sure. From what I have seen posted here in the past probably your best route is an overdrive tranny conversion. I have a B-1D and it has served me well as around town truck for 20+ years. Many of my local trips were in the Dodge instead of my 2004 truck. Make sure the brakes are working correctly, give it a good tune-up and go. You will always be noticed in the route van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Welcome Richard; Very cool truck. I am certain you know this already......but you have something pretty rare and unique. I kinda doubt that you could find much in the way of an "economical swap" for that rearend. Just a guess though. My gut feel is that you will want to take very good care of the one you have and look carefully at a tranny swap instead. There are many views of what makes up a good daily driver. A lot of these are personal preference based.....but to me there are two essential characteristics. They are safety and reliability and I think they go hand in hand. Take a hard look at how you intend to use this truck and base your decisions on what you know has to be done to operate the truck safely. I would do a thorough investigation on the condition of the existing braking and electrical systems as well as the drive train. Get familiar with what is there and what all the various options and possible upgrades are before you tear into it. Start hunting down any missing essential components as this can take quite a while. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. You will probably need find some mentors here too. Looks to me like you have a great start. Have fun and enjoy it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Greg and all, So is the best way to upload pics is through the album method? How do I get pics into my postings. I know the beast is rare and I want to do right by her. I am pretty sure that I am going down the original route. Sounds like the tranny swap is the way to go for better drivability. Brakes I know I have to get to the safe level. And electrical looks to be all there with no monkey business done to wire harness. Here is my plan: Lift the body off the chassis and restore all the mechanicals, running gear, suspension, etc. Have the body media blasted undercarriage and interior in some crucial areas. Apply a sealing primer and paint. Then set body back on chassis. Preserve the existing paint and repair patch panel bad areas and then blend repairs into patina. Once all rust is halted and rot repaired, clear coat the way it looks now. The finish will have a very flat look to it. SO when it is finished it will look as if it drove right out of a barn after sitting for decades. Tell me what you think....I want to preserve this history but drive it, as it should be driven. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) Yes, as stated the rim should be "split lock ring" rims and are pretty safe. I've got them on FEF and have no issues. What you want to do if find "RouteVanJoe" on here with the yellow '51 route van, I'm sure he'd have some pointers/info for driving and maybe some help since he's further along than you. Welcome and nice van! Edited September 11, 2013 by ggdad1951 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Jim, When is the BBQ? I will use that date as my deadline! Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 ggdad, SO will I be able to use radials on that type of rim? Good to know they are a safe rim to put new tires on. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Greg, Was not able to locate info on 5 speed conversion, any other ideas on how to find info. Thanks, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 A picture of the dreaded "Widow maker" split in the middle rim. Was not used on 40's and 50's Dodge trucks. Mostly Ford and GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkldesign Posted September 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Dodgeb4ya, Thanks for the clarification, now I know I can use my stock rims. I will now start cleaning them up and get them ready for new tires. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) You can check and see if you can find a 3.9 center section for the rear. If you can find a good one, and if the diffs are interchangeable with the rear in your route van that will give you some additional highway speed, but it will cost you in accelleration. My 1 ton with the 4.3 runs at a comfortable 45 mph and maybe a little more, but when accellerating from a light I can't keep up with a modern vehicle. I say this because if you haven't driven a 50+ year old daily driver in daily traffic you may be in for a surprise, and some aggravation. I've found that taking a vehicle to a cruise on a weekend or evening on local highways people are a lot more forgiving than trying to go the same route on a weekday when folks are trying to get to work. A novelty on the weekend may be a pain in the butt during the week. Whatever you do make sure the vehicle is reliable so that you can actually enjoy driving it. Mike Edited September 11, 2013 by MBFowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 ggdad, SO will I be able to use radials on that type of rim? Good to know they are a safe rim to put new tires on. Richard Yes you should be able to. I'm running radials with flaps and tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Does your Route Van have Fluid Drive? I understood that was a popular option with those trucks. That may make a trans conversion more difficult because they use a longer input shaft. You may be able to change the bell housing and flywheel over to a standard clutch setup which would help with the conversion. Try searching for T5 or T-5. That is the prefered transmission for upgrade. Tom Langdon (Stovebolt) I believe is the vendor that supplies the conversion parts. Merle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townwagon Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Richard, Your Route Van is a DU? The EU generally used 5 bolt rims that use the same bolt pattern as the Power Wagon or M-37, though I recently discovered the EUF uses 6 bolt rims (at least the one EUF I found did). Route Vans are neat trucks, but anything Route Van specific is really hard to find. Don't trash anything without veryifying that it is shared with a more common model of truck. There is a guy that started a Facebook page for Route Vans: https://www.facebook.com/DodgeRouteVan He has a lot of neat pictures he collected. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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