1954 Plymouth Suburban Project

[Dave72dt]

Valves with depressed centers don't necessarily mean the engine ran hot.  Valves come that way new.  Who really knows what the engineers theory on valve shape at the time was or how accurate the theory was.  I don't recall hearing about 2 piece valves.  2 piece valve guides, yes.  Logic would say that all the exhaust valves should be the same style whatever that is and the all same style for intakes, whatever that is.  Logic would also tell you that mismatches in styles would produce little noticeable changes in the performance of the engine.  You may only find the differences in a controlled environment.  Mother Nature throws to many variables into it.

[DJ194950]

I talked to PP on the phone about another question he had and asked about the valves on his Hi-Def picture he'd posted on the forum. It appeared to me me that his exhaust vavles appeared to be domed. Which per my very limited experience may indicate sodium filled vavles which again were made in two pieces, the head and the stem were welded(fused? together) and have been known to seperate.

As per the "dished appearing" intake valves on the #2 & 4 cyl,. valves per the Hi-Def. pic, I had not seem such in my limited experience in flat mopar motors, and suggested he check with the forum about such an issue before putting the head back on.

 

Sodium filled valves are still Mfg'ed for racing etc.. Some have sodium filled stems and heads. Dished valves headed valves are also sold. My q. to PP and the forum was has anyone seen such dished valve heads on "stock" flatheads? or were they overheated at some point and distorted?

 

Attemping to attach a page from google w/pics of various sodium filled valves. Sorry, but not permitted to upload this type of file!

If interested, I guess you'll have to do your own search,

Sorry!

 

Best,

 

Doug

[pflaming]

Per Doug's suggestion, I removed the head. The exhaust valves are domed, the intake valves flat. All appear to be in good condition. It is now torqued. Will do compression and oil pressure testing tomorrow. Our youngest son bought a house so much of the past week involved that move, sore legs and all.

 

I've very anxious to find those compression numbers and that oil pressure number as well.

[pflaming]

I'm up a stump. My most recent engine has a starter (42 - 48 Chrysler is painted on the starter) which has the solenoid mounted it top, like a space ship on a 747. Additionally, the starter is activated by this solenoid not via manual lever as on my 52 truck.

 

This solenoid is rectangular (auto lite) stands horizontally, has  two large bolts on the bottom and two smaller ones above. The left bolt is  a part of a mount to the starter so that then is the input to the brushes and the other would be the input from the battery. That I confirmed via a direct wire. 

 

But I do not know how to activate the solenoid which engages the starter to the flywheel. Does anyone have the schematic on that?

 

edit: Response to the two following posts. THANK YOU! There are three wires attached to the bottom left terminal. and two wires attached to the top left terminal. Got to figure out where they go. I need a schematic so will head for  Google. 

Edited January 23, 2014 by pflaming

[Dave72dt]

Activated by one of the small posts, power from start button or key switch in start mode, may have an " S" on it.  Other small post may provide full battery voltage to the ignition while the starter is being activated,  may have an "I "  label, at least that's the way another brand labeled theirs.

 

Correction!  Seems the inside small post goes to ground and not the ignition. 

Edited January 23, 2014 by Dave72dt

[Dodgeb4ya]

Here ya go....(+) Postitive battery cable is connected to block Ground) other (-) negative battery cable connects to starter lower outer starter stud as shown in pic. Terminals are not marked on the solenoid.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Dodgeb4ya

[pflaming]

I fully charged the battery overnight, then this morning I hooked up the wires to the starter as directed. NOTHING. So on my way to my PT I had two generators checked, both are good, and asked if they could test solenoids and regulator, the answer, yes bring them in. So I have two solenoids, two regulators, one starter, and another generator in the trunk of my car. They will all get tested tomorrow. Maybe then I can get through this valley.

 

PT says and showed me that my leg has really improved. I can tell it when I walk but cannot/should not/better not lift much. Did that on Monday and PAID for it.

 

So I'm still picking at this suburban and trusting for bigger results and more often. 

Edited January 24, 2014 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Learned something today. I now have three different starters: (1) the truck starter has a mechanical device to engage the pinion to the flywheel; (2) one starter from a P 25 engine has a Bendix follow-through drive assembly and (3) one starter is a Chrysler starter and has the solenoid and an activating arm to engage the pinion. This solenoid-activated arm assembly is in ON the starter.

 

Question: Which of the last two is the preferred one on the later push button or key activated starters?

 

My Chrysler starter and solenoid check out good, but I was informed the solenoid would not take 12 volts for very long. I took two regulators and the one on my truck is no good the other one IS. No wonder my battery would not stay charged. These guys do not charge for testing so I left my faulty generators for their repair inventory. A good trade for me.

[pflaming]

With the started connected up correctly, though hot wired, it turned that engine over very nicely. Oil pressure at a low RPM is 40# so that for me is very acceptable. BUT, absolutely no compression on all but one cylinder. After a telephone visit with a member he suggested the valves must be sticking. He said a piston with VERY BAD rings should have 20/25 #'s.

 

So removed the head a few minutes ago, cranked the engine again and he was/is correct. So all valves come out for a good cleaning, then clean the valve guides and lap the seats. That should help.

 

Re: starter, I have two good starters. I prefer the one with the solenoid unattached and mounted else where. Just a simpler setup IMHO. So if someone needs a '42-'48 Chrysler starter, I have one. The lever action is interesting and someone who wants to be original might prefer it. A pm will get a response. Would trade for a dual carb intake manifold. 

 

One certainly appreciates an air tool for this hobby. I restored my truck without one, never do that again. 

[Don Coatney]

One certainly appreciates an air tool for this hobby. I restored my truck without one, never do that again. 

 

I did not know that you had restored your truck.

[pflaming]

I'll let others decide if I restored it or not. 

 

 

[Young Ed]

Going to post a poll? Nothing against it but it ain't restored.

[DJ194950]

While I can appreciate the work done on your truck Paul, But restored? No. Saved, Yes.

Even with the patina'ed paint, the lack of a stock seat and the fuel tank on the pass. running board, plywood bed, not even close enough to use "restored", even under the most loose use of the term.
Can love your truck, But.  

Just my 2 cents, 

 

Survey says?

 

Best to ya,

 

Doug

Edited January 27, 2014 by DJ194950

[Old Ray]

Tough crowd, Paul.  

(You didn’t actually get a new camera did you?)   

[pflaming]

re·store

 transitive verb \ri-ˈstȯr\

DANIEL WEBSTER

: to give back (someone or something that was lost or taken) : to return (someone or something)

: to put or bring (something) back into existence or use

: to return (something) to an earlier or original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.

 

 

 

 I did ". . . give back (someone or something that was lost", ". . . put or bring (something) back into existence or use" ; and ". . .   returned (something) to an earlier or original condition by repairing it, cleaning it". WEBSTER.

 

AND  I drove it to the BBQ and back in one day, a 360 mile round trip,  it can still carry its own weight and then some. 

 

Now I appreciate the skills, meticulous work, improvements of others but trucks like those shown in "Classic Trucks" and like mags are NOT restored trucks, they are models of the modern add-ons advertised in the magazines.  

 

JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION!

 

 

Edited January 28, 2014 by pflaming

[Jeff Balazs]

Too funny. I wouldn't worry too much about the semantics.......or what some consider a proper restoration. You brought it back to life and by doing so "restored" it's functionality. It's useful now and that should be enough.

 

Jeff

[Frank Elder]

Brought back to life,...yes. Is everything as it was when it rolled off the lot when new,....no. Another vote for not restored, but 90% of the cars and trucks on here also, are not restored.

So you are one of many..so bask in the glory of your individualism....in the middle of a huge throng!

[DJ194950]

To me the singular word- Restored= Back to an original state, in cars= as made at factory.

Most old cars are variating degrees of "restored and made usueable again", as are most of the cars and trucks of the forum.

 

If someone were to describe their car as "mostly",  "75%", " partly", "as possible", restored as probably most all old cars are, that works for me.

 

I like the time, effort, and the fact that they are "saved".

 

ENJOY THE CAR!

 

Isn't the real point for 99% OF US?

 

Best to all,

 

Doug

[pflaming]

So much for the definition of 'restored'. I just like to make them run again, whatever that definition is is fine with me.

 

Now back to the Suburban: I visited with a top notch body shop owner on Sunday and told him body work was much harder on my body than mechanical. He said his knees went years ago. So now with poor knees yet hoping to get them back, I have a dilemma on the burb. I 'm not sure my legs will let me finish the body work because I don't want to hurry to a wheel chair.

 

So I'm considering some Donald Trump "Plan B's". Got several to research out. 

(to be continued)

[Old Ray]

Why should body work be any harder on the knees then mechanical?

 

My knees are shot too, and I’m just a little younger then you are, and it mostly comes from life, including 20 years shop work ( mechanical), sales counter, sports, and being stupid. It is not the type of work,……. it is the location of the car, ……if you have to kneel to do body work, (or mechanical) and I know we do, and especially as we get older the car has to be higher, much higher, and much more accessible. (read hoist).  

Now if you are looking to save your knees and farm out the body work that is a good idea, but I don’t think it’s just body work, it is part of getting older, and I hate it, I just today had to quit hockey for good after almost 40 years .

 

 

 

PS:  I have found that large floor gardening knee pads are a great benefit, ......not sure what to do about the get down and especially back up though!

Edited January 30, 2014 by Old Ray

[48Dodger]

In Paul's world, his truck is restored.

 

Rock on, Patina Paul.

 

48D

[pflaming]

if you have to kneel to do body work, (or mechanical) and I know we do, and especially as we get older the car has to be higher, much higher, and much more accessible. (read hoist).  Old Ray

 

In Paul's world, his truck is restored. 48 Dodger

 

Ray, you are right on. Cutting out the floor pan from the T-BIrd and fitting it in the suburban was a knee bender and I think that is what got to me. 48 Dodger: You too are right on. 

 

 

Now I will be careful not to call this a "restored" car when road read, just a 'back in service' vehicle. 

 

I'm getting an engine ready for it now. Compression is 50 and five 75's at a slow rpm and the oil is 50, I like higher compression numbers, but for now these will work just fine for me. 

 

Love this hobby, there are so many ways to work it, so that individualism stays very alive and well. Oh yes, the knee has taken a significant turn for the better.  

Edited January 31, 2014 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Update: Knee/leg is not back to normal but now works again. I've gone mechanical for a time will return to body work once the engine is running and hopefully acceptable. So have had a drill motor and steel wheel brushes going and today painted some of the engine outside parts: starter, oil filter, front engine mount, timing chain cover, etc.

 

Nothing new here, just another 218 P25 Engine. Tomorrow will be fun, got to pull the water distribution tube. Sure hope it's not too tight. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Same engine. Planning to get back to the Suburban ASAP. Will get the truck fixed in the next two weeks while waiting for building approval and materials, then put up the building, then the suburban.

 

I was visiting with a young man who frequents the Dunes in Pismo, CA. I told him what I was doing and that I might fix the surburban for a surfer's car and take it to the dunes to sell. He said unusual vehicles sell like hot cakes and the buyers have lots of cash and like to be different so I should get a very good price.  So. . .  

 

This is just an update. I am alive, well, and back at task.

 

A huge thank you to one and all for you support. 

 

 

[pflaming]

I moved the suburban back to the former garage slab. But have decided to change course. I learned a lot on the car and I worked quite hard on it yet I am going to disassemble whatever is usable and then scrap the car.  Then I will focus on getting my new shop set up and will work to get my  truck fixed. So thank you for you interest and support. It has been a very interesting six months.

 

So if anyone is working on a 53 / 54 suburban, I have parts. pm me after a few days. 

Edited April 3, 2014 by pflaming