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Stuck Motor


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14 replies to this topic

#1 47Mopey63

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:21 AM

I'm a newbie and a lurker here.  I bought my 47 Special Deluxe coupe with stock flathead six last fall.  It has been sitting at my sons house since then as I have had no time or room to work on it.  Went yesterday to pull the spark plugs and pour some 'miracle' oil into the cylinders to see if I could get the motor unstuck.  What I found has me baffled.  All of the pistons were at or near TDC.  I can't figure out what kind of catastrophic failure would have caused this.  There is oil in the crankcase which looks unadulterated.  And there does not seem to be any windows in the block.  Any ideas?  

This was a bit of an impulse buy of a model that I have liked a lot since my high school days back in the 60's.  I may end up selling it as it may be a bit more of a project than I want right now.  I have a 63 Plymouth project and a VW Beetle project (for my wife) that are filling the garage right now.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Paul



#2 Silverdome

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:48 AM

Possibly someone dropped the oil pan and disconnected the rods. I'd drop the pan and take a look.



#3 Young Ed

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:43 AM

How did you see the pistons? Are you sure you weren't seeing valves or something else?


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#4 JerseyHarold

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:02 AM

Welcome to the forum.

 

The "valve deck" is directly under the spark plug holes in these engines, with the valves on either side of the plug hole (front to back).   The pistons are off to the driver's side of the car.  When trying to oil-up stuck pistons, it helps to have a funnel with a thin hose attached that you can snake into each cylinder through the spark plug hole.  When you probe with the hose you'll see what I'm referring to.

 

For what it's worth, several people have reported good results with a 50-50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone.

 

Don't hesitate to post whatever questions you have.  The collective knowledge here is huge!



#5 seabee1950

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:09 AM

I tend to think like ED before you take anything apart, take the time to turn the engine over with a socket on the front of the engine on the crank and work it back & forth a bit.

I to think your looking at the Valves but that might not be the case but with the fact that there is no external damage showing but I might be wrong. :lol:

 

I want to Welcome you also and invite you to the chat where there are buys talking about and having fun, most of the talk is done in the evening after some that still work stop in.  


Edited by seabee1950, 21 July 2013 - 09:20 AM.


#6 seabee1950

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:10 AM

I tend to think like ED before you take anything apart, take the time to turn the engine over with a socket on the front of the engine on the crank and work it back & forth a bit.

I to think your looking at the Valves but that might not be the case but with the fact that there is no external damage showing but I might be wrong. :lol: 



#7 greg g

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

Some folks have reported good success using a 50/50 mix of diesel fuel and auto trans fluid for an engine soak.


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#8 garbagestate 44

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:40 PM

Years ago when my 251 was stuck I pulled the head and poured the oil in directly. What I found was that the oil leaked out on the pistons which weren't  stuck and stayed in the bores on the ones that were. That's not a rule of course, just an observation. I agree with the other members that a bar and socket and a good long soak is worth a try. It's a good cheap start.



#9 47Mopey63

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:56 PM

I pulled the plugs and used a thin bladed screw driver to probe into the holes.  I could see what I thought was the top of the pistons.  Is there a diagram somewhere that shows the relationship of the valves to the spark plug holes.  Do the valves "straddle" the spark plug hole, one on either side?  I poured in a mixture of ATF & acetone, which seemed to drain down.  The car is about 200 miles away at my sons house.  The good news is that he is a better gearhead than I am. (And younger)

 

Thanks for the reply's

 

Paul



#10 Don Coatney

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

This might or might not help.

 

bidneside.jpg


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http://smg.photobuck...519373465134713

 

 

It is impossible to lick your elbow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#11 knuckleharley

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

I'm a newbie and a lurker here.  I bought my 47 Special Deluxe coupe with stock flathead six last fall.  It has been sitting at my sons house since then as I have had no time or room to work on it.  Went yesterday to pull the spark plugs and pour some 'miracle' oil into the cylinders to see if I could get the motor unstuck.  What I found has me baffled.  All of the pistons were at or near TDC.  I can't figure out what kind of catastrophic failure would have caused this.  There is oil in the crankcase which looks unadulterated.  And there does not seem to be any windows in the block.  Any ideas?  

This was a bit of an impulse buy of a model that I have liked a lot since my high school days back in the 60's.  I may end up selling it as it may be a bit more of a project than I want right now.  I have a 63 Plymouth project and a VW Beetle project (for my wife) that are filling the garage right now.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Paul

Since you already have a 63 Plymouth project,want a 63 Plymouth Fury convertible project car to go with it?


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#12 knuckleharley

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:29 PM

I'm a newbie and a lurker here.  I bought my 47 Special Deluxe coupe with stock flathead six last fall.  It has been sitting at my sons house since then as I have had no time or room to work on it.  Went yesterday to pull the spark plugs and pour some 'miracle' oil into the cylinders to see if I could get the motor unstuck.  What I found has me baffled.  All of the pistons were at or near TDC.  I can't figure out what kind of catastrophic failure would have caused this.  There is oil in the crankcase which looks unadulterated.  And there does not seem to be any windows in the block.  Any ideas?  

This was a bit of an impulse buy of a model that I have liked a lot since my high school days back in the 60's.  I may end up selling it as it may be a bit more of a project than I want right now.  I have a 63 Plymouth project and a VW Beetle project (for my wife) that are filling the garage right now.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Paul

The best way to unstick a inline flathead engine is to remove the valve covers on the side to close all the valves,pull the plugs,and fill each cylinder with carb cleaner.

 

Start at number 1 and screw one of of those "hold valve open" devices people use to change valve springs on OHV engines into the head,and then hook a air hose to it and pump up as much air pressure in the engine as you can get. Remove the oil fill cover and just sit there and wait until you hear "glub,glub,glub" noises coming from the oil pan. That is air going past the rings.  Disconnect the air hose and then fill that same cylinder with WD-40 or some other light penetrating oil,and repeat with the air pressure until you hear the glub noises again. The purpose of this is to lube up your cylinder walls and rings so they don't gall when you try to turn the engine over.

 

Then go to number 2 and repeat.

 

Once you have done with with all 6 cylinders,you can usually put a wrench on the crank nut and turn the engine over. If not,"bumping" the starter will do it. Just "bump" it a very slight amount to break it loose.

 

Next step is to find the piston at TDC or closest to it,and adjust the valves on that cylinder. Then go to the next one that is closest to TDC and turn the crank nut with a wrench until it is at TDC and adjust those valves.

 

Repeat until all the valves are adjusted.

 

Once you ahve done that you can drain all the carb cleaner,WD-40,and old oil out of the engine,replace it with fresh 30 wt non-detergent oil and then use the starter to spin the engine over 10 seconds or so at a time until you build up oil pressure.

 

Once this is done you are ready to put the plugs back in it and fire it up.


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#13 41/53dodges

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:46 PM

If you have a really, REALLY, REALLY stuck motor, there is no substitute for heat. I had dealt with a truck left in the woods with the plugs out/broken since the 70's. only good fix for that block was fire, but I somehow doubt you have one that bad, this is a last ditch effort to get it apart.

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every screw, a struggle.
every bolt, a battle.
every part, a fortune.
if given the chance, i would do it all again in a heartbeat.

#14 47Mopey63

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:28 AM

Thanks for all the advice folks.  I have not had a chance to get back and see if our 1st dose of medicine has worked.  Really busy this summer.  Getting ready to retire soon and things seem to be getting busier rather than tapering off.  I think the advice to use a funnel and thin tube makes a lot of sense as you might otherwise lose all of the fluid down an open valve. Once I get retired I'll hopefully have more time to tinker with it.  After which there will probably be a lot more questions.

 

Paul



#15 plymouthcranbrook

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:55 PM

I think that like most of us retirees you will find yourself asking the age old question" How in the heck did I ever find time to work". My cars still wait for me to find the time to do even simple stuff. 






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