Cpt.Fred Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Ok, here's another one about leafsprings and lowering and riding comfort... My P10 is currently lowered in the back with 3" lowering blocks and 1 coil cut away in the front. The front went down 3" and i'm now hitting the bump stops, so i'll get me some of these CC850 springs i read about in another thread here and try them out. The rear is down on the ground for over 4" now, due to the sagging original leaf springs, and though it may look cool to some (me, for example ) it's very unpractical, uncomfortable, most likely unsafe (scrub line) and just not fair to the car in general... dropping a case of beer in there leaves me with about an inch of suspension travel, not to speak about people sitting in the rear bench seat. I found a pair of new springs advertised over at Butch's cool stuff to drop the rear 3" without blocks. Sounds like a great thing, does anyone here have any experience with these? I also found that the rear shocks are lying in about 45° angle to the frame when the car is lowered like this. That seems quite unpractical to me, geometrically / physically. There is another hole in the frame just like the one used for the upper shock mount, about 4" farther back, that looks like it would be a good alternative. Maybe a piece of steel tube needs to be welded in for reenforcement. Anyone here ever had that idea, too? Thanks in advance, i'm looking forward to your opinions! Fred Edited July 10, 2013 by Cpt.Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 the shock pivot on their mounts so angle is compensated for during dampening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Lowering springs and lowering blocks both move the axle closer to the frame so there's no gain in clearance. Lowering springs reduces the leverage the axle has in regards to spring wrap and stress on the Ubolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I know the shocks pivot, but a more upright position could increase efficiency in my opinion, thus my question about the relocation. I also know there is no gain in clearance (after all i WANT the car to be lowered) but a new leaf spring is acting a lot different compared to an old, worn out one. That means i'd have 3" and good springs and not 3" blocks and dead springs giving me an undesired extra inch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I know your train of thought and it is questionable but some later model production cars have their shocks more extreme angle than this and is by design...dampening is dampening it appears... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Standing the shocks more upright will increase the harshness of the ride, more efficient as you say. It will also increase the heat generated by the increased fluid movement through the valves, possibly leading to shorter shock life. Lowering springs should be the preferred choice over blocks in every case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted July 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2013 more stiffness is what i need to keep the car from bottoming out when lowered, front or back. i'll have to buy new springs anyway, i just thought about the shocks as well because they're very soft in my opinion. (they're new ones from AB, oil shocks, 3 years old now) maybe there are gas shocks that fit and do a better job, relocated or not? so, the question remains, does anyone here have the lowering springs in their car already instead of blocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 I currently have 3" lowering blocks in the rear & have always been concerned with the scrub line-due to the fact the u-bolts are lower than the bottom of the rim. I bought a pair of rear lowering springs (3") from Posie's about 8 months ago, just haven't had time to replace them yet. Hopefully I will get to it within the next week or ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 That seems to be exactly the kind of info i'm looking for. It would be great if you could drop a line here or even post some photos when you're done with the change. If they're doing the job i will order them as well. Where did you get yours? Thanks, Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Fred, I got mine from Posies....they're the same ones Butch's sells for the same price. I think their ad says they're dropshipped from Posies. I have pics of mine with the 3" blocks & will post pics with the springs (minus the blocks) once installed.....as long as I dont procrastinate too long. Derek On another note, my mother was born & raised in Germany....Rottweil (sp?) & my grandmother was originally from Colgne. They came to the states in 1953. Edited July 15, 2013 by deathbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hey Derek, thanks a lot in advance! I look forward to the photos, and hope to order the springs for the next container a friend brings over here in october. We ordered dropped springs for a 55 caddillac last year, and they didn't drop the car at all really, so that we had to put blocks back in afterwards, which is pretty annoying for 450-600$, so i thought this time i should ask for someone else's experience first. 1 1/2" blocks are ok, but 3" is kind of scary to look at I've never been to Rottweil, only know the name from the famous dogs, but I've been around Köln (Cologne) and still know some people there. Best, Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bewillie Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Rear springs are easy to rearch if you have a press available. Turn them upside down and measure the arch. Now place them in a press between two pieces of 4x4 about 1' apart. Start in the center and bend a SMALL AMOUNT. Write your presure down. Move 2" to one side and repeat about 6 times. Go to the other side of center and repeat. Do both springs at the same time.Turn the springs upside down on the floor and measure the arch again. It should be less. Be careful not to bend too much at a time. If you take your springs to a shop to have them rearched this is how they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 thanks for the info, bewillie! sadly, i don't have press available. in addition i don't think rearching would do the job? correct me if i'm wrong, please. first i think my springs maybe "tired" from age, and i cannot imagine rearching gives the weak material back its full strength. second my goal is lowering without blocks, and from what i know that would require shortening the main layer of the spring, and roll new "eyes", which i certainly cannot do on my own here. hence my question about the posie springs, because they would give me both (i hope), fresh material AND lowering without blocks, or at least with just one block. i just took out one block on each side, leaving me with 1 1/2". it doesn't look so nice, but i think when i load the trunk and place a cockeyed buddy in the rear bench seat on the way to the next race that might do the job for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) Fred, thanks for starting this thread, it gave me some motivation to install my springs I've had for 8 months now. I have both springs installed, but had to order new rear shackles, one was worn pretty bad (pics & probably a thread to follow). I will install the shackles when I get them. One more thing, if you can do me a favor, please check your rear shock/leaf spring mounting plates. There is a bend in it that the shock mounting stud goes through, does the bend go up or down? When I installed my 3" lowering blocks a few years ago, I wasn't paying attention to the way they were......not sure, just need confirmation on the orientation of the bend. Before I started removing the old springs, I took pictures. I didn't notice the left side "bend" for the shock mounting stud pointing up & the right side "bend" for the shock mounting stud pointing down until I went to install the new springs. Thanks, Derek Edited July 25, 2013 by deathbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted July 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Great news, Derek! I'm really curious about how your car sits with the new springs! I will need new shackles, too. The driver side spring is so worn out the shackle hits the frame once in a while, it needs to be replaced immediately as soon as the season is over... Could you order stock shackles or do the Posie's require special ones? As for the mounting plates, i hope this picture helps: both bends are facing down to the ground. man, my car is soooo grimy down there... Edited July 25, 2013 by Cpt.Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Thanks Fred, pictures are worth a thousand words, glad you mentioned they were facing down though. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyboy Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 why not get coilovers, with the correct measurements you will know where to mount them in a custom location for proper suspension travel and as long as it's not to low you won't have to notch the frame, it's easy and JEGS has lots of options that work/worked well, they have even brakets that can be bolted up from the coilover to the frame or you can weld it, It made sense for me to get something I knew would ride like a dream, let the car sit where I want with the travel I want without the restrictions of hoping stock suspension doesn't bottom out or hit the frame, and you will have easy adjustable ride height with the coilovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyboy Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 also a four way link with a boxed in frame of the differential helped tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyboy Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Fred, here is what my rear spring shackles looked like: (edit...I ordered new shackles from Berbaum's, forgot to ask if they're NOS or replacements) painted the left one, saw the condition of the right one, then came to my senses & decided to order new shackles. next 2 pics are the top of the left shackle: top of the right shackle: Edited July 26, 2013 by deathbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyboy Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 good job on getting new U-bolts, many people re-use them and don't realize the potenial dangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy devil Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 coilovers are as traditional as SBC350/350 combos and MII front ends... go ahead and do the whole thing cool guy thing if you are going to ruin your car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 coilovers are as traditional as SBC350/350 combos and MII front ends... go ahead and do the whole thing cool guy thing if you are going to ruin your car That's a little extreme. I might agree a little on some level, but a lot of us have upgraded to newer technology to make our cars more useable in modern driving, and everyone is entitled to do whatever they want with their own car ...... Marty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy devil Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Is it extreme Marty? I agree that everyone is entitled to do whatever they want with their car. BUT, it is the truth. Read my other posts on my car and you will see why my attitude was such! I love traditional hot rods, TRUE traditional, but check out the feedback I got about changes I want to make (without modern technology parts). So? The OP of this post is a traditional guy... I already know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I guess you wouldn't like it if I put a thermostatically-controlled engine oil cooler on my car; I've just been too lazy to mount it and change the piping. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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