adamflowers Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I am a novice trying to reinstall the 4 speed transmission in my 1952 B-C-3. I followed the directions in the manual when removing the transmission and slid it out on guide pins placed in the upper bolt holes. Now when I try and slide it back in it is getting hung up. It appears to me that the throw out bearing is the issue. I can't seem to get it lined up up correctly. I tried putting the bearing directly on the transmission shaft but then I can't get it past the clutch fork. I then tried to remove the clutch fork but can't seem to get it out of the housing with the clutch installed. Can someone please advise what the correct procedure for installing the transmission? The book just says "reverse removal procedure". Thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Is your clutch plate alligned properly. Using a clutch alignment tool helps, but it can be done without one. Get up in there and eyeball it as close to centered as possible. To move it you'll have to depress the clutch pedal enough to release tension on the clutch plate. Once you get it centered DON'T DEPRESS THE CLUTCH PEDAL. Now as you slide the trans into place, have the throwout bearing in place against the clutch with the fork against it. You may need to hold it up until the trans shaft goes through it. You may need to rotate the input shaft as it goes in to line up the splines. It'll help if the tranny is in gear so that you can spin it with the output flange. Then once you get it most of the way in, if the last inch or so seems tight, depress the clutch pedal so the clutch disc can float and it will help to line up the shaft with the pilot bushing. That will allow it to slide in the rest of the way, and as they say, Bob's yer Uncle. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Did you also remove the clutch? If so did you re-align the clutch disc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 To add to what Merle said DO NOT use the bolts to pull the transmission all the way in. When everything is alighned the transmission will slide in all the way with minimal effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Maxwell Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Merle mentioned a clutch alignment tool. I have used such tools in previous tractor restoration and they were very helpful. Although I am a long way from needing one, I would like to have one in my cabinet for my B3C.. Are they available? I have not seen any in the Roberts catalog. NAPA? Elsewhere? Barry Is your clutch plate alligned properly. Using a clutch alignment tool helps, but it can be done without one. Get up in there and eyeball it as close to centered as possible. To move it you'll have to depress the clutch pedal enough to release tension on the clutch plate. Once you get it centered DON'T DEPRESS THE CLUTCH PEDAL. Now as you slide the trans into place, have the throwout bearing in place against the clutch with the fork against it. You may need to hold it up until the trans shaft goes through it. You may need to rotate the input shaft as it goes in to line up the splines. It'll help if the tranny is in gear so that you can spin it with the output flange. Then once you get it most of the way in, if the last inch or so seems tight, depress the clutch pedal so the clutch disc can float and it will help to line up the shaft with the pilot bushing. That will allow it to slide in the rest of the way, and as they say, Bob's yer Uncle. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamflowers Posted May 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 Thanks for the info and quick replies. I did have the clutch out while replacing the rear main engine seal. I did not use a cluch alignment tool when reinstalling it, I just had a 3/4" dowel stuck through it to try and keep it straight. I will see if my local parts store has an alignment tool, if not, I will eyeball it like you said. I will keep you posted. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I have used the eyeball procedure to install many transmissions. I never owned an alignment tool until until I made one from an old transmission input shaft a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I see you are located in MT Vernon. A bunch of us are going to get together in Mt Victory one week from today for a old car show. Looks like that is about 62 miles from you. Care to join us? Unfortunally I will not be driving my old Plymouth but I still plan on attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Davey Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 If you have access to a woodworkers lathe, you can take measurements from your transmission input shaft including the area where the throwout bearing rides and make your own alignment tool. Not fancy, but it did work. I haven't figured out how to add pictures to the new forum, or I'd show mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 If you have access to a woodworkers lathe, you can take measurements from your transmission input shaft including the area where the throwout bearing rides and make your own alignment tool. Not fancy, but it did work. I haven't figured out how to add pictures to the new forum, or I'd show mine. An old broom handle, cut to size, might be close enough in size. . . Can't remember if it is or not for my Plymouth but it might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobK Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Another way to make a clutch alignment tool is to push tranny in until it "hangs up" on something and then use the bolts (longer ones may be needed) to draw the tranny to the bellhousing. Upon bending the input shaft, undo the bolts, remove tranny, replace bent input shaft, use old shaft as an alignment tool, and then proceed to reinstall the tranny with the clutch now aligned. I learned this trick over 40 years ago from an old timer, well he's old now, but I....opps I mean he was a young pup back then. Edited May 21, 2013 by BobK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamflowers Posted May 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 The wooden dowl worked to align the clutch. Napa sells a universal clutch tool but it didn't quite fit. I now have the transmission back in but face a new problem. I have no resistance when I engage the clutch. I fear that I may have not installed the throwout bearing correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamflowers Posted May 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 The clutch alignment worked and I have the transmission back in. Now I have a new issue. The clutch has no resistance when I engage it. It seems to me like the front portion of the throwout bearing that faces the transmission should be in a fixed position with the clutch fork. Currently it just rotates around. Anyone have any input on what my problem could be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamflowers Posted May 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 The clutch alignment worked and I have the transmission back in. Now I have a new issue. The clutch has no resistance when I engage it. It seems to me like the front portion of the throwout bearing that faces the transmission should be in a fixed position with the clutch fork. Currently it just rotates around. Anyone have any input on what my problem could be? Attached is a picture I took prior to disassmebly. I orientated the bearing the same way on install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 If I remember correctly there are flat spots along the sides of the bearing carrier that fit between the fingers of the lever. This will keep it from spinning. There should also be a small spring attached at the top of the bearing carriers that connects to a pin just above it on the inside of the housing. This spring helps pull the bearing back away from the clutch fingers and against the throwout lever. You might be able to see up in there from the bottom to see what's going on. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 This is what it should have looked like prior to installing the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 The truck setup is a bit different, although the concept is the same. You can still see the flats between the fingers of your throwout fork. Here's a shot of mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Your picture shows the throw out brg out of place. It's slid too far into the fork and covering over half of the splines of the disc. If you replaced the disc and have not adjusted the arm, you'll get that. A new disc will move the pressure plate fingers farther in so adjustment is necessary. Almost everything should be visible from underneath. You didn't by chance, knock the throwout brg out of positon and miss it completley when installing the trans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Merle's DT bearing picture looks normal to me when pulling a DT 4 speed trans out. In a truck the throw out bearing and sleeve is hooked to the hold back return spring and no way will the bearing drop completely down so the input shaft will miss it. There is no room. The DT bearing sometimes drops a half inch down and is stopped by the spring unlike the cars. To adjust the clutch on the trucks it is completely different from the cars. A shop manual is good reading. Some pics of a parts engine W/clutch pieces.... Edited May 28, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Yes, a shop manual is good reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Merle's does look normal but I don't see a spring on Adams. Granted , it's a pic taken during dissassembly,but if it's not there when taken apart and being unfamiliar with how it's supposed to be, could easily be missed. I wouldn't think it possible to miss it completely either but strange things do happen. How about putting it in backwards. That would put the brg srface up against the fingers and the smaller diameter of the brg holder would go right past the fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamflowers Posted May 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 I definitely did not install the return spring. It must have flown off during the tranmission removal and I did not notice it. Now that I see your pictures and look more closely at the shop manual diagram, I see that is the issue. I don't think I will be able to replace the spring with the transmission installed but I am going to try. Thanks again for the great pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 You will have to pull the trans to do the job right and be able to hook the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 The spring on mine was broken when I first pulled it all apart. I found a comparable replacement at my local True Value Hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter99 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 If the spring fails while driving are you parked ? Mine was missing just wondering how important it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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