The Sword In The Stone - A Water Distribution Tube Adventure

[jsturner]

Today, after many days of trying, I finally removed both water distribution tubes from the 251 I'm rebuilding for my '51 Chrysler. That's right, both. Someone who came before me had jammed a newer water distribution tube inside the rotted remains of the original. The newer one came out after many failed attempts when I welded a piece of all thread to the end and made a puller with a couple PVC pipe fittings and a nut. Triumphant, I looked inside my now pristine block to find jagged rusty scraps of steel where there should have been a cozy spot for a new water distribution tube. To top it off, there were several distinct fragments, two of which were jammed all the way in the back of the block. After retrieving the two pieces that were closest to the front with a hooked wire and some swearing, I was stymied by the remaining pieces. Long story short, after a trip to the hardware store, some tool fabrication, and 6 hours of trying, I managed to get all the pieces out. The rearmost one actually had to come out the core plug hole in the back of the block, and the second to rear piece came out the rearmost core plug hole in the side of the block. If you think about how big a water distribution tube is compared to those holes, you can imagine how mangled they got. I also retreived a bunch of bits of wire that someone had broken off in a previous failed attempt. See pictures below. Maybe someone can benefit from seeing the tools I made. Despite the time and effort, it was better than drilling a hole in the back of the block for access.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by jsturner
Changed image host from Photobucket to Imgur

[54Illinois]

Way to go...and what a mess! 

 

Reminds me of the time when a well driller drove a new point into an old one, then would not own up to it!  Maybe the same guy???

[TodFitch]

Wow! I've seen bungled repairs but installing a new distribution tube without removing the pieces of the old? That is a new one.

[Scruffy49]

The one in my 218 is brass, hope the 230 is as well. Not in the mood to fight wih those. What a mess, surprised you were able to fish it all out as quickly as you did.

[frankieflathead]

Wow, that's some ugly crap. Well done, JS.

[jsturner]

Thanks for the applause fellas! In addition to the water distribution tube replacement I'll be filling the water jackets with evapo-rust (which actually works, a rarity in this age of gimmicky miracle chemicals for the gullible) for a couple days, so if it overheats when it's back on the road I'll be pretty mad. Anybody tried rust remover in the water jackets and live to tell the tale?

[Don Coatney]

Is evapo-rust a harsh chemical? How does it know when it is done evaporating the rust? Does it stop working then or does it keep eating away at the non oxydized metal?

[jsturner]

Don, it seems like a fairly harmless substance. Supposedly safe to handle with bare hands, water soluble, and makes good fertilizer when it gets "tired". It doesn't seem to attack anything but rust. I've left parts in it for a week and they come out the same as if I'd left them overnight: rust free and not corroded. It doesn't touch paint or plastics or metals, just rust. I wish I had a 5000 gallon tank of it to dip a whole car in At $20/gal that would be pricey though. I've found it at autozone, tractor supply, and harbor freight if you're interested in trying it.

Anyway, my engine's cooling system is now full of it, so I'll report back in a couple days with the result.

[Don Coatney]

Let me know how it turns out

[deathbound]

This may be a new one.....maybe not. Over the weekend, I decided to pull the water pump for a rebuild & checked the water distribution tube....here is what came out, very easily, I might add. It fit loosely inside. A garage made distribution tube from copper pipe.

[jsturner]

Wow, that homemade water distribution tube is quite a thing. I wonder if the holes are in the right places; I heard they're supposed to direct coolant to the exhaust valve seats. Looks like it's soldered along the bottom, so maybe it was originally a piece of copper sheet? Either way, if it came out easily and you didn't have any overheating problems maybe an undersized water distribution tube wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Well, the results of the evapo-rust in the water jacket experiment are in. It didn't do as great of a job as I expected. Usually rusty cast iron parts come out looking freshly cast, but there was definitely still a lot of scale left in the water jackets. It looks like it took out the rust, so what's left must not be rust. My guess is it's minerals from hard water being used in the cooling system. I wonder if that CLR stuff would work better.

 

Anyway, the water jacket is pretty open now and it didn't overheat before the teardown, so I'm content and will build it as is. I'll probably do the "stocking in the radiator hose" trick for the first few hundred miles to catch any loose bits.

[MacGyver]

Wow, that homemade water distribution tube is quite a thing. I wonder if the holes are in the right places; I heard they're supposed to direct coolant to the exhaust valve seats. Looks like it's soldered along the bottom, so maybe it was originally a piece of copper sheet? Either way, if it came out easily and you didn't have any overheating problems maybe an undersized water distribution tube wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Well, the results of the evapo-rust in the water jacket experiment are in. It didn't do as great of a job as I expected. Usually rusty cast iron parts come out looking freshly cast, but there was definitely still a lot of scale left in the water jackets. It looks like it took out the rust, so what's left must not be rust. My guess is it's minerals from hard water being used in the cooling system. I wonder if that CLR stuff would work better.

 

Anyway, the water jacket is pretty open now and it didn't overheat before the teardown, so I'm content and will build it as is. I'll probably do the "stocking in the radiator hose" trick for the first few hundred miles to catch any loose bits.

 

Evapo-rust uses a chelating agent, ethylenediamine i believe, to bond with the iron, essentially 'stealing' it from the iron-oxide. As you know, this product doesn't do a perfect job, but it is likely that what is left is not rust. If left in contact with a given steel surface for a long time there can be some grey-ish look to the metal rather than the bright shine you might expect from a newly machined part.

Edited April 9, 2013 by MacGyver

[Tones52]

Well, I did the search in quotation marks for the WDT in the hopes of finding a work around for my dilemma and it seems that jsturner's post was the best match to ask for an assist on getting a stuck rusted tube out of my 52.

 

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I ordered a WDT removal tool from Vintage Power Wagons and had a local weld shop put together a nut/bolt adapter to have the tool work with the slide hammer.

 

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I ended up only getting about the front fourth of the tube out.   Pretty bummed because instead of yanking on that tube with the slide hammer, maybe using a tool like John's where I could have tried cranking it out would have been better. BTW, that's the replacement tube from Vintage Power Wagons above what I was able to extract.

 

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The removal tool won't grab any of the remaining tube in the block which suggests that the slots are gone.

 

Given that the engine is still in the car and knowing that there are veteran members that have dealt with even worse water distribution tube issues, I would deeply appreciate suggestions for this neophyte to get that remaining tube out. Photos of tools used would be great. Heck, if you live close enough, you're welcome to come over and help me   OK, maybe I'm pushing it on that, but the ideas and tool photos would be gladly accepted via post or PM.

 

I only have the basics in terms of tools but there's a weld shop in the neighborhood as well as a good local parts store, a NAPA etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Tony

[_shel_ny]

Seems in the past someone has posted to use a piece of flat stock. maybe sharpened on the end to wedge in there and eventually break it up enough to get it out piece by piece. 

[42 DeSoto Fifth Avenue]

My experience out in the southwest with a 49 DeSoto that spent its life in Albuquerque was that the water jackets were filled with sand/mud/crud. I used a pressure washer to flush it out and I had to pull out the freeze plugs to get it all out. The distribution tube came out fairly easily with the hook/puller.

Ed K

[knuckleharley]

 My guess is it's minerals from hard water being used in the cooling system. I wonder if that CLR stuff would work better.

 

 

 

I found that white vinegar does a much better job of removing hard water stains than CLR.

[pflaming]

I worked for a LONG time to get mine out and I never got it out. A mechanic friend looked into the end of the tube and in the sides of the block, freeze plugs were out, and we determined the old tube was good enough to distribute the water and so we left it in.

 

I DID thoroughly clean the inside with a very high pressure steam cleaner until only clear water came out.

 

I've driven the truck on a 380 mile round trip, up to the Sequoia Redwoods at an elevation of 6,000 feet, and have driven it all summer. The temp stays at 160 all day long. I don't recommend what I did, but the engine runs nice and cool.  Cool!

[martybose]

The original distribution tube in my 230 block broke in half when we tried to pull it.  My machinist wound up boring and tapping a large hole in the back of the block to pull out the remnants, the put in a cast iron threaded plug sealed with JB Weld to close it up.

 

Marty

[Jerry Roberts]

The original distribution tube in my 230 block broke in half when we tried to pull it.  My machinist wound up boring and tapping a large hole in the back of the block to pull out the remnants, the put in a cast iron threaded plug sealed with JB Weld to close it up.

 

Marty

 Same with my engine , only the machinist used a freeze plug . 

[Tones52]

My water distribution tube is finally out!!!

 

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Thanks to all who gave advice, sent PMs & photos and encouragement. Also a big thanks to this forum for being such a great resource. A donation will be forthcoming.

 

Here's some of the key things that worked for me. I used a can of WD40 and a can of PB Blaster on it spraying through that rear heater valve and the front opening. I'd also use my compressor to blow air into it to help push the WD and PB along the channel. This was done over a couple of weeks.

 

Today I  gently hammered the chiseled fence rod (like jsturner's) between the tube sides and the block walls. I'd do a few taps with the hammer, jiggle the rod and pull it out by hand. This was done with the threaded hooked rod inside the water distribution tube.

 

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The tube finally seemed to jiggle but I couldn't pull it forward by hand. So I used the threaded hook rod my brother made and got it so that it would grab a point as far back as possible. I then set the blocks in place as a jig and gently turned the nut. It slipped out a couple of times but on the third try that old tube actually crept forward

 

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I was finally able to pull the rest out by hand. Lucky for me in that the only slot left on that tube was the last one in the rear.

 

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Next will be to clean up the channel, put in the new tube, put all the pieces back together add water and Prestone to flush the system and fingers crossed that this addresses the overheating issue.

 

I'm in the east end of Los Angeles County so if anyone wants to borrow any of the tools to pull their WDT, just let me know.

 

Tony

[Jeff Balazs]

Bravo Tony;

Looks like your WDT was in better condition than mine. I extracted it in 14 major segments and then pulled the head and got more.

Here is a photo of some of the stuff I fished up through the top of the block using a magnetic wand. Our LA area water might be to blame. Oh yes.....and this was after I flushed the block with a power washer 3 times.

 

Jeff

[Tones52]

Thanks Jeff. And here I thought I was having bad luck with mine. That'll teach me. BTW, the caption for your photo is classic

[Dodgeb4ya]

If the tube is that corroded what about the engine block. It will corrode too. Maybe not quite as much. Around here in the NW I've never seen a DT corroded like that.

[Tones52]

That's my fear Dodeb4ya. Hopefully, those members that had tubes worse than mine like Jeff's came out of it okay and so will I.

 

I cleaned the channel as best I could with the chisel I made and the power washer. I connect some plastic tubing to my wet/dry vac to suck up the remaining debris in that channel. Hearing and seeing the larger particles get sucked up me made me think that some pieces are also in the other areas of the cooling system. I guess I'll find that out this week

 

This Plymouth has lived its life up in the Bay Area's Pleasant Hill area. I can't speak to the water there but like Jeff said, the LA area has some pretty harsh, hard water. A case in point, we had a tankless water heater system added to our home but after two years it had to be replaced with a conventional water heater because it kept getting clogged with mineral deposits that would form in the system.

 

My hope is that if the motor and cooling system are okay and can be maintained that way with coolant and distilled water and flush as recommended by others on the forum.

[Jeff Balazs]

I posted that photo to show how much crud can accumulate in the water jackets........and not come out with the most energetic flushing. I'd bet that there is probably a lot of these engines out there with that much junk in the water jackets. I spent several hours fishing this stuff out.

 

I don't know how long mine had been parked but 20+ years would be my guess. I imagine that it had water in the system most of the time.....but when I got it the lower hose had rotted and it was dry. I had the radiator recored and put a two hour pressure test on the whole system with 15# and it held. No leaks and engine does not overheat.

 

Jeff