Young Ed Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I wish you could meet up with this guy. I don't know the details beyond it had a diesel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty O'Toole Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I used to have a 1970 Fargo half ton, same as a Dodge, it had the same front axle as your truck with 12" drum brakes. Never had a problem stopping it. The big drums should work for you although I wouldn't blame you for putting discs on if it is possible. The stock front suspension on mine worked fine, it was not hard to steer and it rode decent on smooth roads. On rough roads you had to go slower than in an IFS truck. Recondition the springs, replace worn parts in the steering and king pins, install new shocks, and get an alignment.For easier more responsive steering have the caster cut down and install a steering damper to control shimmy. But that is icing on the cake. Steering on mine was not hard except when completely stopped. I had 7" wide wheels and 235 70 15 radials, pumped up to 32 PSI. If you went for a narrower more stock sized tire it would be better for steering. To rebuild the stock suspension is easier and cheaper than installing IFS and it will work just as well up to a point ( no power steering and rougher ride on bad roads). To this day lots of heavy trucks use leaf springs and beam axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Young Ed, That looks like a pretty awesome little diesel International. I wish i could meet that guy too, i bet he would have plenty of good info to share! Where did you find that pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I used to have a 1970 Fargo half ton' date=' same as a Dodge, it had the same front axle as your truck with 12" drum brakes. Never had a problem stopping it. The big drums should work for you although I wouldn't blame you for putting discs on if it is possible.The stock front suspension on mine worked fine, it was not hard to steer and it rode decent on smooth roads. On rough roads you had to go slower than in an IFS truck. Recondition the springs, replace worn parts in the steering and king pins, install new shocks, and get an alignment.For easier more responsive steering have the caster cut down and install a steering damper to control shimmy. But that is icing on the cake. Steering on mine was not hard except when completely stopped. I had 7" wide wheels and 235 70 15 radials, pumped up to 32 PSI. If you went for a narrower more stock sized tire it would be better for steering. To rebuild the stock suspension is easier and cheaper than installing IFS and it will work just as well up to a point ( no power steering and rougher ride on bad roads). To this day lots of heavy trucks use leaf springs and beam axle.[/quote'] What kind of motor did you have in the '70 Fargo? I would certainly plan on upgrading to disc brakes and reconditioning the entire front end, including adding a leaf to the springs and better shocks. Up until this point i havent had to replace any front suspension parts king pins, tie rod ends etc. how hard is it to get these parts? Is it as simple as going to rock auto or NAPA? Im not to worried if it doesnt handle like a dream its a truck and i would expect it to handle like one. So the going slower on rough roads and such wouldnt bother me much. Could you elaborate on this, "For easier more responsive steering have the caster cut down and install a steering damper to control shimmy." Im not really sure on how to go about doing that. IFS would be the ideal if money grew on trees as they say, but since it doesnt $2,000 for just a new front suspension is a hard pill to swallow. If i can safely get by with a revamped stock suspension and sacrifice the smoothness of the ride im okay with that. My biggest concern is the safety of the vehicle not if its going to ride like a Cadillac. Thats very true my father had a '96 Mack Tri-Axle and it had a beam axle and leaf spring front end. Thanks for all the help, -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hey Chris; I think this swap is very interesting. I looked at doing something like this before I decided to stay stock. For what it is worth I think you should try to stay as close as possible to the stock front suspension and steering. Everything I looked at seemed like it was going to mess too much with the sweet turning radius & steering these trucks are supposed to have. I really think the bigger issue is how best to isolate the increase in vibration from the diesel to the existing frame. I spent a lot of time working on straightening my 3/4 ton frame and my conclusion is they are not all that beefy in the first place. Especially compared to modern trucks. I am sure you have already considered this...... but I think if this needs to be looked at very carefully. I look forward to watching your progress with this. This type of swap seems totally within the character of these trucks. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Young Ed,That looks like a pretty awesome little diesel International. I wish i could meet that guy too, i bet he would have plenty of good info to share! Where did you find that pic? I took it at a car show almost 10 years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hey Chris;I think this swap is very interesting. I looked at doing something like this before I decided to stay stock. For what it is worth I think you should try to stay as close as possible to the stock front suspension and steering. Everything I looked at seemed like it was going to mess too much with the sweet turning radius & steering these trucks are supposed to have. I really think the bigger issue is how best to isolate the increase in vibration from the diesel to the existing frame. I spent a lot of time working on straightening my 3/4 ton frame and my conclusion is they are not all that beefy in the first place. Especially compared to modern trucks. I am sure you have already considered this...... but I think if this needs to be looked at very carefully. I look forward to watching your progress with this. This type of swap seems totally within the character of these trucks. Jeff Jeff, Thanks for the support and recommendations i really appreciate it! I think i am going to try and stick with the original front suspension and steering. I will just do the appropriate upgrades and reconditioning so that this thing is safe. As i said before im not to concerned with the ride if its a bit rough well then that just adds character to the truck Ive been looking into the vibration issues and i know that the 4bt does vibrate a great deal especially at idle and shutdown. I plan on boxing the frame with 3/16" thick plate steel and adding beefed up cross members. I also plan on using hydraulic fluid filled engine mounts. There is an outfit called Bruiser conversions that makes these especially for the 4bt. I have heard very good things about these types of mounts and that they cut down the vibration immensely. Ive also been doing a ton of research over on the 4btswap forum and they don't consider this to be a hugely radical and difficult swap. Theres guys over there that have swapped them into 50's era fords and chevys and have had success for thousands of miles. I just hope that i will have the same if not better with my '52. -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Chris; You are welcome. I will be watching your progress with much interest. Even though I am not really a diesel guy.....I totally get what you want to do. Should be very cool, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Chris;You are welcome. I will be watching your progress with much interest. Even though I am not really a diesel guy.....I totally get what you want to do. Should be very cool, Jeff Cool im glad theres some interest in this. I just happen to be a huge diesel guy, actually more like a fanatic I began taking apart the front suspension last night, i'll post up some picks later on today. -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Posting lots of photos along the way would be good for us vouyers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 So i got the front axle pretty much stripped down today. I still need to remove the axle from the leaf springs and remove the king pins. Ive never taken king pins out before any body have any advice, do i need any special tools? Thanks, -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Just remove the lock bolt, pop out the upper welsh plug and drive the pin out the bottom with a hammer and brass drift. It should come out farily easy. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Just remove the lock bolt, pop out the upper welsh plug and drive the pin out the bottom with a hammer and brass drift. It should come out farily easy. Merle Thank you Merle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41/53dodges Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Just remove the lock bolt, pop out the upper welsh plug and drive the pin out the bottom with a hammer and brass drift. It should come out farily easy. Merle does a 200 ton press count as easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 No Josh, that would be a difficult one. Don't let that scare you Chris, they're not all like Josh's. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apittslife Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 No Josh, that would be a difficult one. Don't let that scare you Chris, they're not all like Josh's. Merle True! See Josh had to deal with Wisconsin locktite! Due to wisconsin weather, if you neglect to use anti-sieze or grease when & where needed, things tend to lock-tightly together. But with enough force you can either break them loose or simply break them (which was usually the result I ended up with)! I am originally from Wisconsin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted December 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 I certainly hope not, 200 ton press looks like im SOL!! I'll just have to get out my extra large hammer and brass drift. Im all to familiar with natures locktite, over here in the North East we basically have the same problems. Especially since the previous owner didnt believe in greasing anything or using anti-seize on the hardware... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41/53dodges Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 No Josh, that would be a difficult one. Don't let that scare you Chris, they're not all like Josh's. Merle talk about scaring Chris, how about scaring the crap outta me! It's pretty scary to see a pair of huge I-beams bend about an inch trying to knock these pins out, while I hafta hold up the other end of the axle! when they finally went, they made an incredible bang that shook the whole factory! Now, don't let my story scare you one bit. this truck sat in a cow pasture for about 4 decades, even the steering was seized up when I got it! Anybody have any stories of trucks like that they resurrected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well i got the axle out from underneath the truck and now its time to remove the leaf springs and have them refurbished. Im thinking of adding a leaf or two so they will better take the weight of the 4bt. What do you guys think? -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Rather than rebuilding the old leaves, how about buying new ones? They are 60 years old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Rather than rebuilding the old leaves, how about buying new ones? They are 60 years old... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Judging by this post new leaf springs cost a lot? I have no idea as i've never had to buy a set of leaf springs before. Anyone have a ball park figure on a new set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I got my set of 4 from Eaton Spring for $1200, but since then others have posted places that are MUCH cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1952B3b23 Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I got my set of 4 from Eaton Spring for $1200, but since then others have posted places that are MUCH cheaper. Wow yea that does seem expensive. Did you have a document with some type of specs on it telling them how to make the new set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Wow yea that does seem expensive. Did you have a document with some type of specs on it telling them how to make the new set? Eaton HAS all the specs for our trucks, I just had to tell them the model number and the number of leafs I wanted. VERY high quality! But also VERY expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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