Suess Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) ... Edited October 19, 2012 by Suessbyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I am curious about this enough to want to see you post a blow-by-blow account of the installation and the issues found/fixed, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Everything you post would be appreciated. A shot of the unit before installation and all the parts included, anything during the installation, any mods to the original drive line, and how it looks mounted. Please and Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest P15-D24 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 stretches a job out you just want to get done, but it would make a great article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suess Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Well it shall be done. I will get exact rpms. So I know what the end result is and a mpg rundown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrashingcows Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Very cool...what transmissionis it going on, or is it a stand alone unit? I'm interested in this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwothree Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Me too! Also the cost.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suess Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ok here we go. GV unit showed up today. I ordered it on Wednesday of last week. When you order they will ask for tire size and gear ratio of rear end. This is done so that you will get the appropriate gear for the speedo. Purchase price for this unit was 2700.00 I chose a gear vendor for the warranty, I want a cruising gear, 700r4 is very expensive and is weaker than a turbo 350, requires lockout, new tranny mount, and must have the kickdown set just right ( you can of course build a 700r4 to handle power but it of course costs money and will shift hard). People will disagree with this but it is my choice To go this route. Another big reason for this purchase was that if the GV is out of warranty and you smoke it. They will send you a rebuilt unit for 900.00. To me this is worth it ( if everything works) So I have a turbo 350 with the 6 inch tail shaft 3.73 gears. I still do not know what my rpms are at but i will get that this weekend before teardown. At 55 she is rapped up. I know there is a mathematical equation for this but it will be much easier to set up a dwell meter and go for a spin. Anyhoo GV is calling for Lucas oil or fully syn mobile 1. I am a believer in good fluids and will splurge on that. As soon as I get into work tomarrow I will get the photos downloaded and give a description of the parts and measurements. Thanks Suess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Keith Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Keep us posted on how this goes. The Gear Vendors over/underdrive is a licensed Laycock de Normanville. These are fairly easy to find in salvage yards in older Volvos and other European cars, eg Jaguar. In conversions the "J" units are "divorced" and sometimes installed with flathead Chrysler sixes and marketed as the Dennan overdrive. The divorced conversions use a short driveshaft or coupler rather than an integral mounting on the transmission tail shaft housing. There many the Laycock de Normanville units that can be overhauled and reused on our cars. You might can probably find one in the local Pick N Pull type salvage yard. The Laycock de Normanville can be damaged when the O/D is engaged while using reverse, even if you should allow the clutch to slip and roll back when starting up a hill. I don't know how the Gear Vendors handles reverse, probably an automatic lockout as in OEM Volvos. In practice this kind of damage is rare as you only activate the O/D when operating at cruising speeds. I think that a decent amateur machinist might be able to convert the Volvo units to the divorced application, but that does not seem to be happening. I'd sure would like to know more about them as I can't afford the Gear Vendors. Laycock de Normanville A-type overhaul video This Laycock conversion has .788 O/D ratio http://www.odspares.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/odspares?opendocument∂=4 Edited October 17, 2012 by Tim Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suess Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I will give brief discription on the parts. This is the tail shaft extension, along with the speed cable and sensor. The kit does require you to put a electric speed sensor inline of the cable. This is done to protect the unit from low speed overdrive. The electronics of the device are all solenoid operated. You receive a dimmer switch that will allow you to manually flip between OD/drive. I used a spray can to give the idea of the footprint of the control module. This can easily be hidden under the dash. The kit also comes with a toggle switch and a red and green LED. I will place the lights behind the speaker grill in the middle of the dash. This is the actual unit and the tail shaft mocked up. Total length is 21.5 height is 7 inches. I have more than enough room for this. Ups claims the shipping weight as 53 lbs. I will of course have to have the driveshaft shortened and balanced 40.00 for that. This also brings up a point about proper install of engine and trans. Not only do you want the engine centered as much as possible but the final angle of the combo is crucial. If i had just plunked everything in and ran it with out doing my pinion and trans angle I would be running into a headache. The shorter the driveshaft is the more critical this measurement becomes. There are kits that will replace the yoke system for a cv joint system. These do work great but if you ever blow out the joint you are stuck. Not a simple ujoint swap. I would much rather have a couple spare ujoints at 15 a piece then the 100 dollar cvjoint. Just my two cents Edited October 17, 2012 by Suessbyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I know this is your choice and i thank you for your time to post up the swap, but i do not know where you came up with your answers as to the strength of the 700r4 compared to the 350. Unless you are running some serious HP the 700 will handle it fine. For less than half of the 2700+ you will have spent on the GV swap i could have a 700 built that would have been pretty much bulletproof and shifted like a dream, not all trans have to knock your teeth out when they shift. I know a few guys that have broke the GV units also so pretty much anything can be broken if abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 though not a advocate of GM related items I also agree with Dezeldoc that for the same money you could well have come up with a modern version that would put a goodly number of dollars in your back pocket..even staying within the GM build you have for you running gear...but I also see the "dare to be different" approach and for that I say full speed ahead...while an interesting article its adaptation to the GM drivetrain will have a lesser footprint/applicaqtion on the forum at large..of course some basic installtion practices will be used in whatever drivetrain it is configured.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suess Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Rebuttal I have heard this before. The why did you pay so much this could have been done for half the price. I have looked and looked at 700r4 I have yet to find the $1300 dollar tranny that is just right. Granted I can go to a junkyard rip a tran out and have it installed for under 500.00. I do not disagree with that but I also do not work in that manner. If I am going to it I will make sure that the part that is being installed will be fully functional and new. So lets say I do get a transmission for 400 from junk yard. Then I get a rebuild kit for 200, then I need to do a converter for 100. That is 700 right there. So the tranny needs to be built. I do not know how to do this and will have to pay someone to do it. So lets say I find a good tranny guy and it is 600 to have him build it ( this doesn't happen and if you think it does put down the kool-aid). Now I need to do a lockout and kickdown 100.00 that is $1400.00. (These prices that I have stated are very low in estimate but for arguments sake lets say I get it for that price) I will still need to rebuild the tranny mount. This does not cost anything just time for me to rebuild it. But let's say the person does not have the ability to do this. Bamn that is at least another 150...... Total of 1550.00.... Savings of 1150.00 So you jump in the car fire it up and head on down the road sweet everything is going smooth but something does happen clutch pack, pump who knows but it happens. What's the warranty looken like. I will tell you it is 30 feet or 30 seconds. If I was going to do a 700r4 I would have done it and dropped the three grand to do it. The tranny that I have is perfect and has no problems what so ever. So I will brake the mold and do something unique. If you can get a 700r4 for cheap and it is what you like to run go for it. I can not find or would run a cheap tran? You do indeed get what you pay for. This car has been with my father since the early 70s I will keep it forever. So I will drop loads of cash on it and make it run for another 60 years. Edited October 17, 2012 by Suessbyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I see your math and while it look is good as you explain it..I see it still a bit fuzzy in overall scheme to things...I just bought a 700R4 not long ago and did the install for a person who does not have the shop or youth in his favor to do the job..cost of tranny pulled at the yard..250.00 then labor only to install...quick and easy with the lift...new filter and oil however prior to start up..30.00 so for less than 300.00 a 4 speed automatic that drives as new...and a driect bolt up to the power plant in your car...you can get a guaranteddx 4 spped auto from a number of builders, TCI, Hughes etc. that come with a warranty... while it is clear that the method you chose is the exact way you want to go and that is well and good...I do not however see your total cost involved cosnsidering an R4...now if you were considering some of the later all electronic shift instead of hydraulic..then you could make your case a lot more credible in cost and possiblily problems installing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 A few of us explicitly asked for photos and commentary on this install and now half the posts are about justifying the choice of equipment. We all make choices. Some want to spend the money on fuzzy dice for the mirror and you couldn't pay others enough money to put fuzzy dice on their mirrors. So lets just skip the justification part... I was actually hoping that the install would be one that kept the stock transmission (with parking brake) and used a short shaft to connect to the OD unit. Seems like that would be a way to get OD without making modifications to the car that the next owner couldn't just unbolt. But that is not what Suessbyr is doing. Fine. I'm still interested in the photos and how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Like i said his dollar his choice and i thanked him for the report on the conversion, but in the scheme of things it will be cheaper to go the 700 route...granted some will find deals and others will pay more for the same. As far as the strength is concerned both are about the same. Again continue on with the install and i will sit back and watch. Todd i was hoping the same thing but i knew they do not offer a kit for our trans, i worked with GV back in the late 80's and supplied them with a Muncie 4 spd for their mock up witch is now behind a 502ci blown 68 Camaro with the Gv in it. Edited October 17, 2012 by dezeldoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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