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4 speed tranny question


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Would it be possible to put gears, 2,3,4 in the places 1,2,3 go, then make another gear for a higher speed 4th gear? OR would it be possible to leave 2,3,4 where they are and replace 'granny' with a higher speed gear? It would be a bit clumsy but one could get used to it since it would be a 'road' gear. Just wondering.

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I suppose it could be done but you're talking about having specialty one-off gears made. 4th gear is on the input shaft. Very expensive shaft to have redesigned. Gear for the bottom shaft also would need to be remade. You could be talking a couple grand in engineering alone plus production. Could probably buy a new Tremec for less.

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That would take a serious redesign of the trans. Since 4th gear is direct drive, as in the input shaft is directly connected to the main shaft/output, you would have to make 3rd shift the direct drive gear and make 4th shift an overdrive gear using the countershaft.

It may be possible to put the 2nd gears in the 1st gear position, put 3rd in the 2nd gear position and come up with an overdrive set for the 3rd gear position, then just alter the shift pattern using the old 4th position as 3rd and the old 3rd position for 4th. Up (1st) - down (2nd) - over and down (3rd) - up (4th).

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I agree with Dave , too many good trannies on the market today that will give you better ratios all around and the adapter will be lot less involved and less costly in the long run..plus..if repairs are needed in the future, you are based on a production unit and not a custom cut set of gears..most folks like the fact that their car/trucks still appear stockin all fashion but if you looking for roadibility..often one must do a bit of change..keep your stock unit to go back to should youdecide to sell the truck and if you build another..you still have the upgrade at home..

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Just put a Brownie in it. You will then have 8 or 12 speeds and another shifter to shift!

And for over 30 years I have put up with my 4.3 ratio and the 265 and been able to do what I needed to do with my truck Hmmmm.....:)

Bob

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Bob, for some reason or another we have both gotten different intent from the original post. I do not recall anyone saying anythng bad about stock or it unable to perform after all these years. There are always a few who want something a bit different and in this the question as asked. The answers given has been based on what may be considered best approach to that end. We all here are happy that your truck suits you as stock and performs to your expectation....but others may want something different and seek to make a change..that is all..

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Bob, for some reason or another we have both gotten different intent from the original post. I do not recall anyone saying anythng bad about stock or it unable to perform after all these years. There are always a few who want something a bit different and in this the question as asked. The answers given has been based on what may be considered best approach to that end. We all here are happy that your truck suits you as stock and performs to your expectation....but others may want something different and seek to make a change..that is all..

Sorry guys that I made a comment that way. And am especially sorry to you Tim. I guess I tend to sometimes be a little bit too sarcastic in my statements and also maybe to be a bit too.... well keep it stock.

I sincerely apologize to all on this post:(

Bob

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This has been an educational thread for me. I had just wondered if one could move gears around in a tranny and get different results. I know nothing about trannys and learned something new. Thank you and no appologies requrired.

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This has been an educational thread for me. I had just wondered if one could move gears around in a tranny and get different results. I know nothing about trannys and learned something new. Thank you and no appologies requrired.

Thanks pflaming. Asking questions and learning new things and new ways to do things can and will make this old car hobby of ours a fun and rewarding experience!

BTW, I have a Spicer 6041 OD 3 speed auxillary (Brownie) truck transmission I once considered putting in one of my 2-1/2 ton Dodge trucks for easy higher speed driving. It goes in between the trans and rear end. It doubles or triples your gears depending on the model-2 or 3 speed. They were common back in the 1940's-60's in medium/and heavy duty trucks.

It would keep ya busy shifting!

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Sorry guys that I made a comment that way. And am especially sorry to you Tim. I guess I tend to sometimes be a little bit too sarcastic in my statements and also maybe to be a bit too.... well keep it stock.

I sincerely apologize to all on this post:(

Bob

Bob..what a standup guy to write what you did..was not really necessary..but speaks highly of you..make me feel like a weasel for writing what I did..your post did not in any manner offend me just trying to stay focused on the question was all..

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Hi Guy's

I think this thread and several others discussing gearing say a lot about the struggle we all face keeping up with "modern traffic". Wouldn't it be nice to be able to go back in time? Certainly all of us share a deep appreciation for the time period and nostalgia that these trucks come from.

So how does one cope with the challenge of operating a "stock" 60 year old truck in the world we live in now? I am not really certain.

I suppose that some of you either live in relatively quiet rural areas or only use your trucks once in a while. I am sure that the stock gearing is more than up to that type of use. But what if you were planning on using this truck as a daily driver? and in a driving environment like we have here in Southern California ?

I have been trying to work all this out in my mind ever since bought my truck.

I would really like to keep is close to stock as possible. Most of my daily driving will be on surface streets and only short distances. But reality here is that when it does go on the freeways it must keep up with the flow of traffic which is typically 65mph and higher. I have read through the post's regarding transmission swaps and frankly I am not sure I want to go through all that.

Switching out the 4.10 gears in the differential to a 3.73 set has a lot going for it.....if you can find them......as the truck is left in pretty much stock configuration. This really appeals to me. I am hoping that I can find what I need to do this "mod". The higher gearing should help a bit with engine life and even gas mileage. And if it winds up that it isn't quite enough of a upgrade then I could always do the transmission swap.

It would be great if there were a kit available for this.....;)

Jeff

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Thanks pflaming. Asking questions and learning new things and new ways to do things can and will make this old car hobby of ours a fun and rewarding experience!

BTW, I have a Spicer 6041 OD 3 speed auxillary (Brownie) truck transmission I once considered putting in one of my 2-1/2 ton Dodge trucks for easy higher speed driving. It goes in between the trans and rear end. It doubles or triples your gears depending on the model-2 or 3 speed. They were common back in the 1940's-60's in medium/and heavy duty trucks.

It would keep ya busy shifting!

Am I correct in assuming that even with a Brownie, the best final drive ratio going into the differential is still 1 to 1? I think they just split the gear ratio of the existing gears. Going outside of the box now, what would happen if the Brownie could be installed backwards, ie., output shaft of the Brownie becoomes the input? Would that create an OD unit? Would the gears take the punishment of being driven backwards from factory's design. How noisy would it be?

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I never suspected this thread to develop as it has. I naively thought one could move gears around in a gear box and get different results, wrong. I often go to Vintage Power Wagon's parts page to view their exploded views of assemblies.

I did that on the tranny. In it I noticed there is a gear of gears (bull gear ?) and it is moved back and forth to make combinations. There is a name for that gear but it slips me just now.

Anyway, thanks to all for the imput, it has been a very educational read for me. I'm always as interested in the why as to the what.

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Hi Guy's

I think this thread and several others discussing gearing say a lot about the struggle we all face keeping up with "modern traffic"...

Switching out the 4.10 gears in the differential to a 3.73 set has a lot going for it.....if you can find them......as the truck is left in pretty much stock configuration...

Jeff

As I've stated before, I have a 3.73 diff in my truck, but other than that it is the original 218 CID Flattie (rebuilt) with the original Fluid Drive and spur gear 4 speed. I've driven my truck around on the Milwaukee expressway system and I've even driven through Chicago on the Tri-State Tollway. This is your typical big city expressway with multiple lanes and a 55 MPH speed limit, but if you're not going at least 70 you're going to get run over. I motored through at 70+ without any problems. I do recommend a disc brake upgrade if you plan to drive like this. The drum brakes, although they work just fine if set up right, were never meant to perform at those speeds.

Merle

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Am I correct in assuming that even with a Brownie, the best final drive ratio going into the differential is still 1 to 1? I think they just split the gear ratio of the existing gears. Going outside of the box now, what would happen if the Brownie could be installed backwards, ie., output shaft of the Brownie becoomes the input? Would that create an OD unit? Would the gears take the punishment of being driven backwards from factory's design. How noisy would it be?

The brownies or AKA auxillary's had different ratio's like under drive, direct and overdrive. Examples Spicer 5831, 6041 and 7041. The last 2 are really pretty big for say a semi or dump truck. The 5831 is say for the one to two ton trucks. These are not for the 1/2 ton pu's!

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