Reusing original fasteners and fittings.....

[Jeff Balazs]

Where do you stand on reusing original (or old) fasteners and fittings?

I've been cleaning up and taking stock of the old fasteners and fittings I have removed from my truck. As I go through this lot, some of them are obvious candidates for the trash this includes items like collapsed and deformed lock washers and stripped or badly corroded nuts and bolts. Other items can be reused......certainly the majority look fine.

My question (and I am sure other folks have this same question) is where do you draw the line? What items would you definitely not reuse? and why? even if they look OK? Have you had failures?

This is a general question....but please be specific.

I am hoping that the answers help a fair amount of us that are new to these trucks and maybe don't have any other Mopar products.

Thanks in advance, Jeff

[Young Ed]

I've reused some and replaced a lot of the easily replaced ones. I would suggest not tossing anything until you've found replacements.

[Dave72dt]

The square lock washers are available new and any of them that have rust pits I'd replace. Seems they get brittle too. Bolts with the divots in the center may need to be duiplicated if you want the original look. Those rivets on the front fenders? Haven't found a source for those but you can duplicate the look of rivets if you want and you'd be hard pressed to tell that they aren't.

I guess if you took enough trucks apart, you could come up with all original bolts. Most are pretty well hidden so unless you're going concurs, replace what you're not comfortable reusing.

[Todd B]

I am far from original. So I put all new grade 8 bolts, flat & lock washer & nuts from Fastenal. They have a gold look to them and they don't seem to rust and get ugly over time. It looks great against the dark brown & copper colors we picked for paint. I used the same bolts on my semi and they look as they did 10 years ago when I put them in. I also kept all the bolts and nuts from all my tear downs over the years. I thought when I restore the next one for my daughter I will try to go original.

My opinion, Todd B

[B1B Keven]

I've reused just about everything, except head bolts.

Here are a few replacement fasteners:

http://www.workshopsupplies.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d707_j_nuts.html

http://www.bresco.com/acatalog/Spire_Nuts-__U__type.html

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/diagram/hardwarescrewhexagonacmethread.html&xhtmlcatalogue=xhtml/catalogue/appendix.html&category=hardware&xsl=diagram.xsl

[Jeff Balazs]

Well how about items like brake springs and the horseshoe shaped retaining clips? Shoe retainers? I managed to get most of this type of fitting cleaned up. They look fine to me. Funny thing is all the wheel cylinders were pretty corroded....I will be replacing these and all the lines.

As far as my truck goes I don't have any interest in ever showing it.....so I will replace some of the standard type nuts, bolts etc as I see fit. I am much more concerned about reliability and maintenance. I don't plan on ever buying another truck so getting this one right is paramount.

There are some specific items though that I am not sure about. Stuff like shock mounts and spring hangers. My first inclination is to obtain a spare for each type and just clean up, lube and use the existing ones. Since these trucks are "new" to me I just don't know where and what their weak points are. What breaks? What never breaks is one way to put it.

Jeff

[MBF]

I've stripped a few differnet parts trucks. I've saved interior and exterior fasteners and washers. Everything was separated by use, labeled and packaged and put in separate containers on the shelf. I've done this with wheel bearings, drums, rims, seals, spring bushings, univeral joints and clamps, knobs, switches, linkages, etc. This took some time, but when I need something, I can easily check my inventory and usually find what I need. I've thrown some stuff out that wasn't going to be usable or safe. Mike

[Dave72dt]

As far as brake parts goes, garages and dealerships that repair and replace drum brakes often install the hardware kits at the same time. They're after reliabilty also. Do-overs for failed brakes often entails more than the brakes.

Shackles should be closely inspected and probably replaced. Spring hangers on the other hand won't give you much trouble although on mine I found the frame to be rusted between them and the frame. You're basically looking for wear, out of round, oblong mounting points, bends, cracks.

[HanksB3B]

Previously written in this thread

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=31287&highlight=restoration

20 years ago I could bring a one gallon bucket of bolts and have them cad plated for $40 combined with window regulators, and door mechanisms, etc I'd be paying $80 and that would probably have included my rusty ol' horn turning into a golden shiny brand new looking part. Today that same bucket of bolts $140 and as you know some of them don't come back looking so great and over the years metal fatigue make them a questionable choice for re-use. Stainless Steel, I love the stuff like I love my door handles. Did I paint over it? No I think it looks great, and couldn't care less about a stuffy old judge at a stuffy old car show. Am I happy with my "restored" mirror arms?, would I do it differently next time? no.

Hank

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Guy's;

This is good. I am not afraid of buying new hardware....nuts, bolts etc... but I wasn't sure about things like spring shackles. Are new direct replacements available? Is it a good idea to remove and tear down the springs ? Mine are not particularly rusty..... somebody shot quite a lot of the undercarriage with military type yellow primer years ago and this is Southern California.

Jeff

[desoto1939]

The big question that you need to first decided on is if you plan to have the truck or any vehicle point judged at an AACA event or specific manufufactures national meet.

I can atest that the AACA takes off popints for non original bolts that are in plain site such as fender bolts. and other exposed bolts.

If you plan to point jusge then blast the bolts they ohter hardware sometime can be hidden such as the lock washer or star washer becasue of the bolt head.

If you are making a driver to take to local shows and to have fun with the car/truck than do what you need to do to suite your needs and wallet.

Rich Hartung

AACA judge

desoto1939@aol.com

[HanksB3B]

Jeff,

Although the truck can always be put on blocks and a complete rebuild of the springs could be accomplished, I am a little sorry I did not do this when my truck was at the frame only stage. There are tradesman that specialize in spring rebuilding. I’m not sure of everything they do or what the process is. Do they bead-blast, wire brush , cad-plate, powdercoat? I know Teflon sliders are used but I don’t know if this applies to old design or newer springs. I do know that they can re-arch springs, but where do you find original specs?, I’m not sure.

My springs are a marginal poor-mans rebuild in that I removed all the surface rust and painted them with Por-15 chassis paint but they were never disassembled and each leaf treated like a lady. Getting springs to not squeak is a good thing and I was able to accomplish this by forcing a good quality grease in between the leaves by rubber gloved hands, driving the truck for about a month, then finally wiping the springs down so they are nice and clean.

If I had to do it over I would have liked to bead-blast and coated each leaf short of spending the money and having them professionally done. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be hard to spend $100-$200 on each spring assembly?

Hank

[Jeff Balazs]

Desoto 1939

I have no desire to go to or participate in any shows. I have nothing against that..... it is just not my thing.

What I am trying to do is build a daily driver/work truck. I think this is a reasonable and achievable goal. Now it may end up that I don't leave things completely stock but my intention is to end up with a truck that looks fairly original or at least period correct. We will see if this idea works.

Hank;

I will look into this further. You are right about doing things like this when it is just a bare frame. Definitely much easier. Not sure if it is worth a grand to eliminate a few squeeks......but if it were done to prevent a likely failure then I it makes good sense.

One thing I will do is put together a decent set of spares. Some of this will be items that I remove and recondition just for this purpose. Others will be things I need to purchase. As part of this kit I certainly want a few things like a spare starter and fuel pump.

Jeff

[Rusty O'Toole]

I reuse everything without a qualm provided it is not broke, bent, stretched or corroded beyond being usable. Including head bolts.

The old hardware is better quality than what you will find in a hardware store today. Unless you spring for grade 8 or stainless.

In the old days head bolts were supposed to last the life of the car. Some time in the 80s GM began the practice of using cheap head bolts that stretched and became useless after one use. Back in the forties and fifties head bolts were the strongest bolts on the car.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the modern aluminum headed engines used angle torgue..wehre a specified amout of torque was applied in equal stages then each bolt usually wrenched an additional 1/4 turn beyond that torque value..also the sue of special washers to protect the aluminum head and prevent turning on the aluminum and allow the head of the bolt to yet slip for the final position..yes these pups will stretch..usually one can get a single reuse before they are stretched..easy to check these with a thread gauge and parallel bar.

[Dave72dt]

Aluminum heads and cast iron blocks made stretch bolts necessary. Different expansion rates. By their very nature, they can only be torqued accurately once. Unfortunately, I think they also fatigue over time and may be the reason for the blown head gaskets that showed up for no apparrent reason. Along with that came improvements in head gasket material that allowed for the surface expansion rate differences between the head and block

[Jeff Balazs]

Rusty O'Toole

Yes I kind of think a lot of the old hardware is better than quite a lot of the new stuff. Some item's this really is apparent. WWII really produced a talented workforce. One area they got right was heat treating......some of the stuff these guy's could do bordered on black magic.

Good stainless hardware is really nice for some applications. Got to watch out for the lower grade stuff though. The threads can gall really badly.

Jeff

[Merle Coggins]

A certain amount of bolt stretch is a good thing to keep the bolt torqued. I work with many applications where a longer bolt and spacer are used so that the bolt will stretch some so that it'll stay tight. It looks like you could use a shorter bolt and toss the spacer, but if you do you can't keep 'em tight. I also remember that Cummins would provide a gauge to measure head bolts to know if they were reusable or not. If they measured within a certain length you could reuse them, if longer than the gauge they had to be replaced.

Merle

[HanksB3B]

There are a few notably different fasterers that are readily visible i.e. the square washers and hex bolts that have a head that has a ridge with a circular pattern stamped into the head, used to fasten the inner fenders in the engine compartment. I chose to use the originals here because of their visibility.

I re-used any bolts bearing the DCPD logo as long as they were in mechanically and cosmeticly "close to perfect" shape.

I opted to use new S.S. fasteners on most "non-specialty" bolts where directly exposed to weather and/or to secure sheet metal panels, splash shields and the like.

My Stainless Steel source caters to the longshoreman and truckers affiliated with the Port of Los Angeles. There are huge open bins of bolts, nuts, washers of all types and sizes. I'm lucky to have found them as one doesn't really realize just how many fasteners and how much $ you'll have to shell out. This particular place was very affordable compared with other places.

Hank

Edited March 7, 2012 by HanksB3B

[Rusty O'Toole]

A certain amount of bolt stretch is a good thing to keep the bolt torqued. I work with many applications where a longer bolt and spacer are used so that the bolt will stretch some so that it'll stay tight. It looks like you could use a shorter bolt and toss the spacer, but if you do you can't keep 'em tight. I also remember that Cummins would provide a gauge to measure head bolts to know if they were reusable or not. If they measured within a certain length you could reuse them, if longer than the gauge they had to be replaced.

Merle

Good idea on the length. If I was in doubt about head bolts I would measure them and if they were not all the same would assume some were stretched and all needed to be replaced.