deathbound Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) This is kind of a follow-up to my thread asking advice on front brakes & steering. Thought I would start a new thread, considering it's all new work being done. Never really got the front brakes dialed in to my liking & had purchased a disc brake conversion kit from Charlie at the end of last year. I was waiting for a good time to install it (at the time, I was re-wiring the car, adding dual carbs/intake, headers/dual exhaust, & new fuel line) and wanted to get the car running again before jumping into more projects on the car. I noticed when I first removed the front wheels, both sides were right hand threaded lugs. This is not right....right???????? I removed all the front brake parts, steering arms/tie rods (tie rods/drag link end, etc. will be replaced), master cylinder & cleaned/prepped parts for paint. I had to enlarge the 2 bottom holes in the steering knuckles for the disc brakes conversion plates. I tried to cut a fat hog & drill them on the car (since the king pins seemed nice-without any slop), and, well, they moved a little & I didn't end up with a clean hole for the new threads. I ended up removing them, used a drill press & installed heli-coils-oh well, lesson learned-don't cut corners. Installed a new king pin package also. Honed the m/c, installed all new internals, made a new cover gasket, & buttoned it up-ALL new brake lines to follow (& probably look at the rear wheel cylinders/brakes too). Painted all the steering parts & installed the ends. Installed the rotors/calipers. Still need to re-install the m/c, but waiting to rebuild the steering box & reinstall it-which I removed yesterday (a whole new can of worms-so to speak) with ugly pics to follow. I'll start with a few pics of the front brakes & m/c-before. By the way, Charlie is so helpful. I had a few different questions at different times, e-mailed him & within a few hours, he responded-even during the evening. GREAT GUY! Thanks Charlie. Edited October 25, 2011 by deathbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 More pics....even found part#'s under all the crud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Pics of the m/c....may be very graphic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 a few more.....I'll post a few pics tomorrow of the insides of the steering box-NOT purdy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Horne Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I need to put new kingpins on my 38 this winter, but for now, I am driving. I installed a 86 Dodge master cylinder on my 38. Used the original brake and clutch pedals though with the aid of a steel bracket. The rest of the brakes are as original. My brakes are doing very good since i got the car on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Horne Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Here are a couple of photos of my MC install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlemo Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Looking good Bob; keep up the good work and keep us posted on your progress. Cass, alias littlemo.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have a 39 Desoto and this has the right lugs bolts on both the left and right drums. So the 38 would also only use right threaded lug bolts or nuts. Rich Hartung desoto1939@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Metal Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Great shots, lots of work there! Cant wait to see the finished product! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I need to put new kingpins on my 38 this winter, but for now, I am driving.I installed a 86 Dodge master cylinder on my 38. Used the original brake and clutch pedals though with the aid of a steel bracket. The rest of the brakes are as original. My brakes are doing very good since i got the car on the road. Here are a couple of photos of my MC install. That's a nice set-up & a big plus using the original pedals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Opened up the steering box yesterday-here's what I found:some gooey stuff that used to resemble grease/oil-1st PIC, scoring on the worm gear of the steering gear tube/worm assembly-2nd PIC (does this look repairable?), major scoring on the steering gear shaft/roller & gear-LAST 3 PICS (definitely needs to be replaced). The steering gear tube/worm assembly is in the $300 range to replace, the steering shaft/roller assembly is in the $100 range to replace.....a couple of expensive-yet necessary parts. I have found a couple places that have them. The bearings look good, may end up replacing them also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hiebert Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 That worm gear actually looks pretty darn good. But that sector shaft is shot just from the grooves in the shaft. That's from worn bushings. A rebuild kit will have those bushings, and new bearings as well, so might as well replace the bearings, too. Personally, I think that scoring is due in part to using grease in the steering box over the years instead of gear oil. Grease just doesn't permeate the bushings the way oil will. Some folks would put grease in things instead of oil to keep worn seals from leaking, rather than replacing the seals. A cheap fix 50 years ago, but catches up when we get a hold of them. My D24 had the same issue, but not quite so bad as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38plymouth Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I will be following this closely. I have the exact same car and hope to add front discs this winter. I would rather swap to discs than rebuild what I have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 The goo looks like the that corn head combine grease that john deere sells for harvesting equipment. If you have any one in the area that does spray welding, some machine shops that work on Heavy Duty stuff have the stuff to do it, the shaft can be built up, then machined back to stock dimensions, if you can't source a better one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 The goo looks like the that corn head combine grease that john deere sells for harvesting equipment. That is what I am using in my steering gear box. Works well so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Horne Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 That's a nice set-up & a big plus using the original pedals. I will take better photos of this set up on my next brake project, with the 37 Plymouth I am doing next. I used a plain piece of angle iron on the 38 pedals to make the adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 The goo looks like the that corn head combine grease that john deere sells for harvesting equipment. If you have any one in the area that does spray welding, some machine shops that work on Heavy Duty stuff have the stuff to do it, the shaft can be built up, then machined back to stock dimensions, if you can't source a better one. That is what I am using in my steering gear box. Works well so far. Do you pack the bearings & pack the steering gear box with it? How much...full? I was wondering, because, when I opened the box, there was grease (not very much & seemed kinda thin) and no gear oil. If I decide to use gear oil, am I correct in assuming I do not pack the bearings in grease? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Gear oil only. The grease is likely in there because a PO did not want to mess with rebuilding it. Probably leaked out all the oil and was used dry for a while, then the grease was put in as a stop gap. So if you get it rebuilt with new and tight seals gear oil would be the deal without the grease, or you could choose to use the grease in place of the gear oil and probably be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Gear oil only. The grease is likely in there because a PO did not want to mess with rebuilding it. Probably leaked out all the oil and was used dry for a while, then the grease was put in as a stop gap. So if you get it rebuilt with new and tight seals gear oil would be the deal without the grease, or you could choose to use the grease in place of the gear oil and probably be done with it. I'll probably go with gear oil only & since I'm rebuilding the box with new gaskets & shaft oil seal, I'm hoping it won't leak. Looks like there's a new thread started re:steering box grease, so I'll watch that & see what the consensus is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Thought I would update this thread-no pics @this time-using my 10 y.o. daughters computer-mine (with all my pics) took a crap-should get it back soon. Anyways, I have since rebuilt the steering box...reused the bearings/races, steering gear tube/worm assembly-all looked good, installed a new steering gear shaft/roller assembly with new bushings & honed to size, new oil seal, new & homemade gaskets to achieve correct free-play with the tube/worm assembly & added a homemade shim that was not present & required for the shaft/roller assembly to achieve the correct movement of the shaft without binding on the worm gear. I will use gear oil. New tie rods & drag link end, original steering arm installed. Also, installed the m/c, bent/installed all new hard lines for the front & rear brakes-so far to the rubber hose that connects to the "tee" & hard lines on the rear axle housing-soon to be replaced also. (Will check the rear brakes when the front is done-front is on jack stands & only have one pair & no room behind the car to lift it & do the rear yet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Horne Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 a few more.....I'll post a few pics tomorrow of the insides of the steering box-NOT purdy at all. What kind of rotors, and calipers did you use?. My stock brakes with 86 Dodge MC is working good on my 38 Coupe. On my 37 Coupe project, I would like to try the disc set up on front, Ranger rearend, 230 Dodge engine or a 201 Plymouth engine with a 5speed Ranger transmission. I have the 230 engine, but ran into a friend with a 38 Coupe that has a 39 engine he does not want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Horne Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Pics of the m/c....may be very graphic. Are you adding a residual valve to your disc set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAubuchon Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 you will need the residual vlaves to make the disc drum combo work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted November 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Are you adding a residual valve to your disc set up? you will need the residual vlaves to make the disc drum combo work 2# for the front discs, 10# for the rear drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldDad67 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Are you running the stock master cylinder with your disc brakes? How is that possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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