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Don Coatney

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Don, I think they are full of dog-poop regarding their own products.

This was posted on this forum but I can't remember whose it is :(

Clearly shows outlets toward the middle of the car, quite accessible.

Maybe send them this pic and ask them what's up??

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Pat,

This is what ECI told me that the outlets face the transmission. Could Don have mounted it wrong ???

Welding on a stop is a good idea !!

Chet...

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Pat;

In the picture of the cylinder you posted the large outlet hole appears to be for the small secondary chamber and the small hole for the primary chamber. That is reversed on the cylinder that ECI sent me. ECI tells me I need a 15/16" bore. Most Mustang master cylinders are 1" bore. However I found a 73 Mustang cylinder with the 15/16" bore with the fittings aligned correctly at Rock Auto.

RAYBESTOS Part # MC36398 Professional Grade; Bore Size=15/16" Number of Ports=2 Primary Outlet Size=1/2x20 Secondary Outlet Size=7/16x24

Front Disc Brakes; Rear Drum Brakes

This morning I will do two things. I will once again call ECI and ask them if the RAYBESTOS cylinder I found will work. There are such things as rod length and cylinder capacity that may come into play. If this cylinder will work I will head to NAPA and see if the Edelmann Fitting Part# 261320 that Chet recommended will work on the ECI cylinder. If it will not work I will buy the REYBESTOS cylinder or its equivlent.

Don, I think they are full of dog-poop regarding their own products.

This was posted on this forum but I can't remember whose it is :(

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on another note, did the instructions have you remove the internal residual valves of the master cylinder?

No! I will ask this question when I call ECI this morning.

Don, I would think you would want to provide for positive stops for the pedals and not relay on the rubber draft seals to provide the return stop for the pedals.

Excellent idea James. I will work on that this afternoon.

Pat,

This is what ECI told me that the outlets face the transmission. Could Don have mounted it wrong ???

Chet...

Nope, only one way to mount it.

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Don, ECI should provide the correct MC. They told me over the phone that the ports face the transmission.

I would give them a call and send a picture of the problem. Chet…

Chet;

I have sent them pictures and I just got off the phone with them. They claim that the master cylinder they sent me with the 7/8" bore is the only one that will work with the GM calipers that I have been running for the past 5 years. I told them that I have found a master cylinder with a 15/16" bore but they claim it will require too much pedal pressure to make this 15/16" cylinder work. My original master cylinder has a 1 1/8" bore. However with the coumpound linkage supplied with there kit it will require more pedal pressure to do the same job. They say my problem is the front calipers are too small and they recommended I call PLYDO for a "fix". You will have this same issue if you instill front disc brakes using the small GM calipers. If you use larger calipers your stock rims will not fit.

I stopped by the auto parts store this morning to inquire about the fittings you recommended. They did not have these fittings in stock but I really do not want to add any additional fittings to the brake lines. Each additional fitting is a potential problem. ECI also recommended I take a hole saw and drill holes through the frame of my car and route the brake lines to the outside of the fraim rail. I will not do this. Pasted below is an e-mail I got this morning in response to my inquires and my reply.

Ralph;

Thanks for your response. I went out to the shop and measured the new position of the brake pedal using your method and you are 100% correct. From its original position the brake pedal will move 1/4" to the right with your bracket. But this got me to thinking where did the "other" 1/4" disappear to? It did not take me too long to find it. Seems the clutch pedal now sits 1/4" to the left of its original location. Add to this the 1/8" side to side movement you said to not worry about and suddenly the clutch pedal is 3/8" to the left of its original position. By the way I bought an off the shelf oil lube bronze bushing from McMaster Carr to correct the brake pedal slop issue. The side to side clutch pedal movement is now close to factory tolerances.

My jury is still out on the tubing connection issues. It is my belief that any additional fittings added to the brake lines is asking for trouble. And your only soloution appears to be adding fittings or using a hole saw to drill a couple of holes through my frame neither sounds like a good soloution to me. I am past the point of no return on this project. I would like contact information of any of your customers who you say have overcome this situatuion.

Don Coatney

----- Original Message -----

From: "ENGINEERED COMPONENTS" <hotrodbrakes@sbcglobal.net>

To: doncoatney@comcast.net

Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:03:04 AM

Subject: Re: Dual Master Cylinder 48 Plymouth

Don, The very fact that it has a grease fitting, and that grease does come out along side the pedal bushing is why dirt collects on the grease. We have done this on all our assemblies for years without any problems. As far as your fitting problem that is a function of the brakes that you selected, not us. Since they are small piston GM calipers they require higher line pressure to function, and therefore need a 7/8 bore m/cyl. The only one that is available to be used in an unboosted situation is the cylinder we supplied. There is no other with outlets on the opposite side, which is why Bob suggested the banjo fittings from Pure Choice. We could have supplied a 1 in. bore cylinder with fittings on the other side but you would be standing on the pedal for all you are worth. I can assure you that using the original m/cyl. I have here from a 48 only moves the pedal over 1/4 inch relative to the mounting face that goes up against the chassis. The way you showed your measuring in the pictures you sent is not relative to the mounting surface.

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Uhhh, wouldnt there be a GM mc that was paired with those calipers????

the banjo fittings on flexible lines might be a solution if that is the only MC in the whole world that will work with your GM calipers. The system on my studebaker (which looks very similar uses a MOPAR sourced MC with the outlets on the pass side. Don;t know the internals but I know it is working with GM calipers, chevelle monte carlo I think was the source. I can see if there is a part number visible on the MC if it might help.

Your experience makes me think that ECI is not a company I would want to deal with should I contmiplate a brake upgrade.

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Uhhh, wouldnt there be a GM mc that was paired with those calipers????

the banjo fittings on flexible lines might be a solution if that is the only MC in the whole world that will work with your GM calipers. The system on my studebaker (which looks very similar uses a MOPAR sourced MC with the outlets on the pass side. Don;t know the internals but I know it is working with GM calipers, chevelle monte carlo I think was the source. I can see if there is a part number visible on the MC if it might help.

Your experience makes me think that ECI is not a company I would want to deal with should I contmiplate a brake upgrade.

One of the reasons I went with them initially is because Norms Coupe had good luck dealing with them when he converted to front disc brakes. The complete package ECI sells most likely works but not with stock wheels. And there dual chambered master cylinder is dahm sure not good for mix and match parts.

A part number or the original vehicle your master cylinder came on would be helpful. Is your master cylinder firewall mounted? If so it will be configured wrong for under the floor mounting as it faces the opposite way under the floor.

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Don, my MC is mounted with two bolts to a bracket that is mounted to the frame. The MC has a plastic reservoir and as mounted the lines face the trans mission. the numbers are as follows, cast into the end away from the actuator rod 89192, cast into the bottom of the piston housing 52006820, and stamped next to that number is 010400C The MOPAR penta star is also cast into the body of the MC. Brakes (GM front, Ford Rear discs) Seem to work just fine at least in the driveway and garage. I believe the 5200 number is the mopar part number.

As this was already attached to Frankin truck when I got it I do not know the source vehicle nor the maker of the mounting bracket.

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now this is becoming advanced chemistry!

wouldn't have thought this when you firts posted the pics

of the ECI setup...

i will definitely not do this swap, i'm lacking the skills and nerves.

hope you find a way soon,

keep the faith!

fred

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I just ordered some "banjo" fittings from a company called Pure Choice Motorsports that are supposed to work with this master cylinder. Cost thirty bucks plus shipping for two fittings. I hope they work....

http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

3/16 Inverted Flare Master Cylinder Banjo Fittings

From Pure Choice Motorsports

Our award winning banjos are bright zink plated steel. This will allow a 90-degree flow out of the master cylinder for 3/16" standard steet tubing, where clearance is a problem or a cleaner look is desired for your brake lines.

Part # 3070 $29.95 pair

(GM Master Cylinder as pictured)

Other Sizes:

P/N 3013 Fits 7/16 & 7/16

P/N 3015 Fits 7/16 & 1/2

P/N 3025 Fits 3/8 & 1/2

P/N 3035 Fits 3/8 & 7/16

P/N 3045 Fits 7/16 & 9/16

P/N 3055 Fits 3/8 & 9/16

P/N 3065 Fits 1/2 & 9/16 ( Chrysler)

P/N 3070 Fits 1/2 & 9/16

P/N 3075 Fits 3/8 & 3/8

P/N 3085 Fits 10mm & 12mm

P/N 3092 Fits 11mm & 12mm

P/N 3095 Fits 10mm & 10mm

P/N 3105 Fits 1/2 & 1/2

prd_zm_107.jpg

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I found one that may work.

Raybestos # MC 39027 (L.H.) (cast iron) 7/8 bore (L.H.)

'76-80 GM Monza • Sky Hawk • Starfire • Sunbird

I know you have seen the pics of my install on the 52----could not the same thing be done on your car and others----or is there no room to relocate back farther? It made the install on mine quick and easy with no complications.

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I just ordered some "banjo" fittings from a company called Pure Choice Motorsports that are supposed to work with this master cylinder. Cost thirty bucks plus shipping for two fittings. I hope they work....

http://www.purechoicemotorsports.com/

3/16 Inverted Flare Master Cylinder Banjo Fittings

From Pure Choice Motorsports

Our award winning banjos are bright zink plated steel. This will allow a 90-degree flow out of the master cylinder for 3/16" standard steet tubing, where clearance is a problem or a cleaner look is desired for your brake lines.

Part # 3070 $29.95 pair

(GM Master Cylinder as pictured)

Other Sizes:

P/N 3013 Fits 7/16 & 7/16

P/N 3015 Fits 7/16 & 1/2

P/N 3025 Fits 3/8 & 1/2

P/N 3035 Fits 3/8 & 7/16

P/N 3045 Fits 7/16 & 9/16

P/N 3055 Fits 3/8 & 9/16

P/N 3065 Fits 1/2 & 9/16 ( Chrysler)

P/N 3070 Fits 1/2 & 9/16

P/N 3075 Fits 3/8 & 3/8

P/N 3085 Fits 10mm & 12mm

P/N 3092 Fits 11mm & 12mm

P/N 3095 Fits 10mm & 10mm

P/N 3105 Fits 1/2 & 1/2

prd_zm_107.jpg

Looks like it should do the job.

Tom

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Today I fabricated and welded on a brake pedal stop. I went to the farm store in search of metal as I did not have anything laying around that would work. I bought a farm gate hinge, cut off what i needed, and fabricated the stop. Everything looks good now. I installed the bracket in the car and it loks good. Tomorrow I will install the master cylinder.

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I finally got to the bolt in part of this dual chamber MC conversion as I bolted in the master cylinder. I was even able to tweak my existing lines so I did not have to make up any new lines. I have not yet bled the system but I do have good "pedal". I now need to re-work my emergency brake cable setop as I can no longer bolt it up to the bolts that secure the master cylinder. I also need to modify the floor pan so the top of the new master cylinder is accessable and I need to widen the slots where the pedals slip through the floor pan as each pedal now sits 1/4 inch outward of there original positions.

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Question.

Since the MC is mounted reverse from its normal position, I wonder if you might need to plumb the lines the reverse also. I mention this only because I believe some of the dual chamber MC's have different size pistons or fluid outlets, hence different flow and or pressure to the front and rear brakes. Since front brakes do more of the work and the rears being drums, I wonder if you need to take this into consideration and plumb the front (now rearmost) chamber to the front brakes, and the rear (now frontmost) chamber to the rears???

Just something to think about.

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