55 Fargo Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Hi all, today I spoke an old Mopar Guru, who also does appraisals of Vintage cars for insurance purposes. He owns 2 -1948 Chrysler T&Cs, he is extemely knowledgeable with 46 to 48 Chryslers. I have bought a lot of items for my car from this Gent, he is a very nice Guy, and easy to deal with. He did however inform me, that my car 's value will be significantly lower than it could be for the following reasons. - different flathead 6 (mine is from a 51 Canadian Dodge) - no fluid drive wrong paint color on dash, and interior cloth wrong type and color -engine bay, underhood, trunk color wrong, should be car body color, instead of black - wrong rad My dash and garnish trim should be the mottled wood look, mine is painted blue Now all of this has lowered my car value significantly, so I might as well enjoy it the way she is. I am certainly not going to throw a bunch of money at her, as the return is now way less, than if I had a OEM correct car. Live and learn.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claybill Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 i think that is true...original or original type restorations are best for value... lots of owners though, just paint away, saying.."oh...what the heck.." it isnt perfect anyway. your changes are kind of minimal and common changes anyway. they would .in my opinion, be critical if you were in a judged show...or for high dollar insurance.. how about others??? bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40phil41 Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Fred, Don't worry about it. The value is dependent upon who the buyer is. Your car looks great and if you ever decide to sell I am sure you will find someone who likes the look. That's all that matters. But, please don't sell. Your trials and tribulations have been very educational to all of us. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 The appraiser said he would only value my car at 4 or 5 k, thats with the interior finished( which it is minus a headliner), and the chrome re-done. The book value on my car would be about 10 k. So it was a little disappointing to hear this, but the way it is.....Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Book value? I don't know who gets that. Sellers want it but not buyers. Original might make it worth more but not always. We are talking about mass produced cars not rare exotics. My favorite car on this site would be Blueskies'. It is worth more than a stock one in my book but no one is paying me for my book. Your car has come a long ways. I like original over highly modified but this all comes down to personal taste. Many here have saved a car that would have been scrap metal. Eric. p.s I have learned not to ask some people their opinion, they will find fault always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claybill Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 i think that is true...original or original type restorations are best for value... lots of owners though, just paint away, saying.."oh...what the heck.." it isnt perfect anyway. your changes are kind of minimal and common changes anyway. they would .in my opinion, be critical if you were in a judged show...or for high dollar insurance.. how about others??? bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 That was stange Bill your post just got duplicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 guess that is all depending on wether you are building the car for yourself to enjoy or building it for everyone else to see..I paint mine usually different colors and different paint scheme/cut lines...last thing I want to see is another car like mine...or vice versa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickG Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 are you getting it appraised for insurance purposes or for something else? I believe for classic classic car insurance companies, like Grundy, they don't require you to get your car appraised, probably knowing that most of us have much more money in our cars than the resale value would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 are you getting it appraised for insurance purposes or for something else? I believe for classic classic car insurance companies, like Grundy, they don't require you to get your car appraised, probably knowing that most of us have much more money in our cars than the resale value would be. Yes it was for Vehicle insurance purposes. Up here we have public insurance for cars, but I may be able to buy addtional insurance privately from a private insurance company. The Gent who valued my car, is a registered appraiser for the public insurance company up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Hey Tim, the car is for my liking, the appraial I wanted for insurance purposes. As we have public auto insurance up here, they have a list of appraisers, and this Gent is one of the appraisers, he indicated my car's value will bea lot less because it has been altered a lot from Stock, mostly paint and interior stuff, but the engine and trans as well.......Fred PS My car, to my liking, and even the appraiser said it should be that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 got you Fred...I also have my 54 insured for top dollar with my company...I did not have to get an appraisal..I did have to submit pictures of the end product for to establish the agreed value of the vehicle..These are the same folks that insured my car from day one and saw the pictures of the car with ragged interior and total surface rusted exterior...I increased my finished value 8000.00 extra dollars.. each person has their own likes and dislikes...a car can be totally retrofitted with modern stuff and be highly dependable and retain pure stock looks inside and out and will have more value to me than a restored stock version..a man will spend the money on the toy he likes..whether anyone else likes it or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I wouldn't lose any sleep over what this guy told you. He may be a 'purist' and anything that deviates from completely original is rubbish to him. You've performed a lot of work and created a very nice car. If his comments disturb you a lot, get another appraisal from someone else and see what they say. Harold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I had a vehicle appraised years back..the 41 Dodge Military of mine with the big block, 833 four speed, custom interior, custom two tone paint and other accessories..was more than a stock truck of the same period would rate..the appraiser must know how the car was built and for what purpose..you cannot judge/appraise a custom along stock features/appointments.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 You need look no further than the old saying, "Follow the Money." If the guy's livelihood involves appraising cars for the insurance company, he is going to low-ball the value at every opportunity. If he starts costing the insurance company extra money, they will pull his accreditation or not renew next time 'round. Similar situation in my industry involving third-party auditours. While it is their business to find opportunitites for improvement and other deficiencies, pass too few factories and the collective factories will just look for an other third-party auditing firm and auditour is out of a job. Were the USDA and FDA not imposed on us, ultimately, at the end of a gun, no one would hire them to certify factories. USDA inspectors majour in minours, and their noted deficiencies more often than not have more to do with how expensive the repair rather than any food safety or quality concerns. Just like police officers, government inspectors have a quota to meet. Don't be discouraged by what an appraiser says a bout your car. It won't be sold until you are dead any ways, and then your heirs can determine value, and decide whether or not to sell to an outside party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Martin Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I want mine my way. That means not so perfect that I would be afraid to drive it. Perfect show cars are not for me. Perfect drivers are what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted March 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I want mine my way. That means not so perfect that I would be afraid to drive it. Perfect show cars are not for me. Perfect drivers are what I want. I am with you Brother. My car is a driver, but as I have mentioned it has been modified from a factory original type. The engine, clutch,trans are froma Dodge, meaning no fluid drive or correct C38 engine number. The dash, window garnsih, fabric color are not OEM, but look good. My paint is not a 48 Chrysler color, and I painted underhood,under trunk, in gloss black, which was the factory color. So I have an old car fixed up, and was gonna be recycled metal years ago but got saved, othewrwise I would never know some of you fine Gentleman.........Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 When I bought insurance for my car I had to pay a higher rate because my car was "modified" and not stock. I take this to mean a modified car is worth more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 take it to mean a modified car is probably built to run a bit faster and often time is...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 I also did mine to suit myself. If a buyer were looking at mine, wanting a totally original apperaing vehicle, it would be a no-sale. At the same time, it gets compliments from lookers and wins an occasional trophy at car shows and cruise-ins. I'm sure an appraiser would say similar things as he did about Fred's. So, if you and your family like your car, Fred, just enjoy it and don't worry. If you ever do another one up, then you now know what to consider....or ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted March 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 I also did mine to suit myself. If a buyer were looking at mine, wantinga totally original apperaing vehicle, it would be a no-sale. At the same time, it gets compliments from lookers and wins an occasional trophy at car shows and cruise-ins. I'm sure an appraiser would say similar things as he did about Fred's. So, if you and your family like your car, Fred, just enjoy it and don't worry. If you ever do another one up, then you now know what to consider....or ignore. Hi Bob, ain't this the truth, do it the way we like them, and forget the rest. My car was so rough, and it did not have the original motor and trans, it also had a number of windsor parts installed ona Royal model, now it is what I have brought her back to be. The bottom line is she has been revived, has been made to loook half assed presentable. The purists will always say it was not remodelled the right way, but they can say what they want. I still have visions of a dual carb, dual exhaust, T5 or R10 OD trans,later model dif, front disc brakes, maybe a 12 volt conversion with alternator,who knows maybe even AC someday, she is modified now, whatever I do will be okay. Now if the car was a T&C, then recreating total originality is critical, as those cars are worth big bucks, even when in rougher shape..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Hi all, today I spoke an old Mopar Guru, who also does appraisals of Vintage cars for insurance purposes.He owns 2 -1948 Chrysler T&Cs, he is extemely knowledgeable with 46 to 48 Chryslers. I have bought a lot of items for my car from this Gent, he is a very nice Guy, and easy to deal with. He did however inform me, that my car 's value will be significantly lower than it could be for the following reasons. - different flathead 6 (mine is from a 51 Canadian Dodge) - no fluid drive wrong paint color on dash, and interior cloth wrong type and color -engine bay, underhood, trunk color wrong, should be car body color, instead of black - wrong rad My dash and garnish trim should be the mottled wood look, mine is painted blue Now all of this has lowered my car value significantly, so I might as well enjoy it the way she is. I am certainly not going to throw a bunch of money at her, as the return is now way less, than if I had a OEM correct car. Live and learn.......... Fred, I think you summed it all up in your first post. The public insurance appraiser owns 2 T&C's........you think he might be a little to biased in his opinion towards mods? He wouldn't dream of painting a non stock color on his $90,000 dollar car, where as ours are little more plentiful, and nowhere near the dollar amount his is. To use as an example, your car in stock form, restored of course, versus the same model with $10,000 dollar paint job, leather interior, and lets throw in a vintage 392 hemi for the fun of it...he would probably give the restored one a higher value due to his outlook on the way it shoud be. Even though in reality the modified car would bring a much higher price at sale time. As to the way your car is now, I say enjoy the fruits of your labor, and drive baby drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builtfercomfort Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Ebay values will tell a lot. A totally stock car or older restoration will typically sell for about half of one with an updated, reliable drivetrain; they often have modern amenities like power brakes and air conditioning. So I think you may want to show your appraiser the largest market for cars in North America and ask him to rethink, or to pay more for additional insurance some way. If [knock wood] your car had a tornado wrap it around a telephone pole, what could you get one just like it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 (edited) Where my car is insured, they ask for pictures and fill out a brief questionnaire about the car and certain features, then I request a coverage amount. The underwriter will compare what I want with their latest copy of the Old Cars Price Guide. If we are on the same page for value, they will say OK......and that makes it a stated or agreed value policy. If you insure for a stated value today, and then make worthwhile improvements to the car over time......then the value should be reviewed in the future. I think I probably need to see if they will give me a couple thousand more in coverage (think it's at 16K now). For one thing, the old car prices in general have crept up. And.....strangely, yes - a modified street rod sort of car will often sell for more than a stock vehicle. But, I can see their point-----I could cover a lot more territory more easily if the convert had a V8, power steering, automatic, etc instead of the old slow six. My brother in law's 77 Vette had an engine fire a while back and there was enough damage to total the thing. The company did pay him the agreed value amount, but not a penny more. He was under- insured actually. Hadn't thought to increase coverage for his latest improvements. Edited March 7, 2010 by BobT-47P15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Fred...bet your appraiser's Chryslers don't have a whisker trim thats been around the world......lol...........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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