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looking for a mtached set of a connecting rods


michael.warshaw

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Matched as in how? big end weight? small end weight? overall weight? same casting #? that is a loaded question mike, need more info and also why? who is telling you these things? i would love to talk to your engine rebuilder as i don't think he is that good from the parts and questions you keep asking.

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Matched as in how? big end weight? small end weight? overall weight? same casting #? that is a loaded question mike, need more info and also why? who is telling you these things? i would love to talk to your engine rebuilder as i don't think he is that good from the parts and questions you keep asking.

No kidding! When we took apart my 230 there were 3 different casting numbers on the rods. We ground down and smoothed the sides of the rods, installed new bushings in the small end and new bolts in the big end, checked the big end for size, then weighed both ends and balanced to match. We then gave the pistons, one set of rings, the rods, wristpins and crank, damper and flywheel to our balancer, who checked the crank thoroughly, then balanced everything as a set. Seemed rather straight forward.

Marty

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Matched as in how? big end weight? small end weight? overall weight? same casting #? that is a loaded question mike, need more info and also why? who is telling you these things? i would love to talk to your engine rebuilder as i don't think he is that good from the parts and questions you keep asking.

that is correct he says the weight in them are all different and this guy realy seems to know about motors he said hes been rebuilding motors since he has been 20 and i think hes 60 now. but in the end he says the casting numbers are different, and the weights dont match and he cant get them to match, he says its of o.k. if their about 5 (some unit off) and he said that mine are abut 50 some unit off.

so where should i go to buy the right weighted rods, he said it very hard to find rods that are good, and balanced, ussaully take alot to find a matched weighted set.

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I was doing my best to keep my mouth shut here but I just cant. Your engine must have really been shaking before it was disassembled. Glad you found a machinist you are comfortable with. Let us know what the final cost of this rebuild is. I do have one little question. Is an engine that red lines at 4500 RPM's balanced to the same degree as an engine that spins at 8000 RPM's?

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It never hurts to get a second opinion when it comes to machine work. The first place I took my motor told me one price over the phone, which was what I expected and was cheap enough that I felt I didn't need to call around. 3 weeks later he calls back with a price double the amount and wants to do work that I felt was totally unnecessary. Went up there and told him I wasn't going to spend that kind of money on a old flathead 6, that I would go with a 318 instead so there would not be a hassle to get my prized stuff back (230 crank and rods).

Second machine shop the guy was totally nice and honest, the price was reasonable, he seemed enthused to work on the old motor, he only did what was needed.

Michael,

Who are you going to trust, some guy who wants your money or a bunch of good guys here trying to help you for free?

If it was me I'd pay for what has been done and take my parts somewhere else. If you're not interested in that advice, I have a nice original set of 218 rods with caps, washers, and nuts that came out of my 77,000 mile '51 Plymouth that I'll sell you.

Edited by Rollie���
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Sounds like we're basically talking about balancing (and maybe blueprinting) the

flathead six.

I had a friend here in town who had his engine balanced and blueprinted

back in the 1970s. I never did hear it run, and he didn't ever drive the car much

after going to the expense on the engine. We used to go parts hunting occasionally,

but he never did finish doing whatever he intended. Last time I saw the car, it was

sitting in a garage about 30 years later....still unfinished.

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Michael,

My '48 P-15 engine was rebuilt in the early '90's to NASCAR standards, those being everything is balanced within 1\2 gram not only in total weight but also end-to-end. Ask somebody who balances important stuff (like cranks, rods, or helicopter rotors) for a living about the value of the moment of balance. Mine could have been closer but I have a potential 500,000-mile engine and for $2700 in machine work alone you'll never justify the cost of trying to do better.

Have your machinist do it all and if he can't then get a new machinist, no kidding! When a machinist cuts the reduction gears for the main engines of a US Naval ship there will be only one machinist doing all the cutting and his employers will take out a policy on his life for the value of that particular machinist to complete the entire job. Honestly, it's that important to have one person do it all. You're trying to get to a high level of quality with your car so don't do the machinist any favors by finding parts for him to work with. Let him do it and if he can't, find somebody who can.

-Randy

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I am not buying it, i have built enough motors in my time to know better, this guy is full of it! all the rods in these motors are the same, many have different casting numbers but are the same, as for the weight just because they have the same casting numbers does not mean the weight will be the same. if he is any kind of machinist he will know how to find the parts and he does not need a new set just the ones that are to far out. but as don said this thing is not a race car and is not going to see 8000 rpm. i am beginning to think you could have shipped the car out to me on the west coast and i could have done the whole thing for a lot less than you are going to be in it and it would be done right!

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Doesn't the mechanic have a line on parts himself? Call NAPA I'm sure they can order you a set. I believe I saw a set on epay not too long ago.. As mentioned earlier. The #'s on them are only casting. If they came out of a 218 motor, then they'll go back in..

What about motor blocks with different casting #'s.. Can I take a crank out of a 318 motor and use it in a 360 motor? or a 307 and a 350?

What is the price tag on your car already? Mine is right at 5k and it's in boxes and only half of the floor is done, no paint, all the glass is out..But I have just about everything to put it back together..These cars are simple to work on.. You don't have to have 4 yrs of college and a $20,000.00 computer to figure them out.

My point is: What is the fun of rebuilding the car and when someone asks questions about it, you don't know the answer, cause someone else done all the work. Down here in my neck of the woods, we have friends that help each other..You said that you have one that has an old car..get with him and make a weekend out of doing something to the cars..and learn about what you have and how to keep it running...

Michael, to me it sounds like someone is making some good money off of your quest to have a nice car..I would have liked to have your car the way it was months ago when you first got it..I'd been proud to drive it around..And all this over a charging problem... John

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without getting into a mudsling fest here I will say this as earlier mentioned by Don Coatney...how in the name of same did your engine ever run or should I say, how did it remain bolted together...imagine the force at 50 grams out..per slug...something surely is not right....and I do think this is valuable reading for anyone so they know the process...limits and actual work done in a balance job.....pay close attention the the paragraph on the L6...read closely on internal and exteral blanced engine...more than car getting taken for a ride here it seems..

http://www.rpmmachine.com/engine-balancing.shtml

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Michael;

I have been told by other forum members that my ideals are not correct. My ideals being that you should know just a little bit about your car before you spend big money on repairs. So I say toss all the information you have received about your engine from forum members such as myself and others down the sewer and go with what ever your family plumbing business can support. Find and purchase a matched set of piston rods to make your machinist happy and go for it. Hopefully with you enriching the economy my 401K will also see an enrichment.

I welcome comments from normspeed and others.

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No wonder the snot was kicked out of his harmonic balancer........

I just wonder about the efficacy of micro balancing a long stroke engine where most fo the work is done in the 1500 to 3000 rpm range. I can certainly understand it in a high performance short stroke racing V8 (a design which is inherantly out of balance) making its power in the 6000 rpm neighbor hood. But as with others I wonder how if it was so out of sorts to begin with it ever got driven at all?

Also why did the piston pins, pistons, and rings weight not get factored into the equation, as they should be arranged to minimize differences between the assemblies

Edited by greg g
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Michael, the 218 rods are not the same as the 230 rods, but both the 218 and 230 rods are offset rods. If you take a steel rod the diameter of the wrist pin and insert it through the piston pin hole in the upper end of the rods and put the rods on the rod in their correct order as they go into the block you will be able to see what I am talking about. They will only fit in the block one way and be correct, this is true of all of the short blocks. The long blocks use straight rods as the block is long enough to place the throws in the crankshaft inline with the cylinder bores. I have two 218 and one 230 engine and all of the rods have different casting numbers. I think you should contact someone at Vintage Powerwagon that can give you the correct casting numbers for the rods in your engine. All of my rods have a different number on each side of the rod.

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Casting numbers do not matter as long as the rods are the same, the numbers may have been from different foundries or earlier or later production dates. length, pin size, throw size and straightness is pretty much all that matters. Any good balancer can get the rods done within specs without needing another unless it is way out then it goes back to how did it run before. Yes the 230 are different, we are talking 218. gee i wonder if the machinist is going to square up the deck? wonder if he knows how?

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Michael;

I have been told by other forum members that my ideals are not correct. My ideals being that you should know just a little bit about your car before you spend big money on repairs. So I say toss all the information you have received about your engine from forum members such as myself and others down the sewer and go with what ever your family plumbing business can support. Find and purchase a matched set of piston rods to make your machinist happy and go for it. Hopefully with you enriching the economy my 401K will also see an enrichment.

I welcome comments from normspeed and others.

let me ask you mr don c, i will take forum members advice, but my motor is completely apart at this mans shop, i cant take it out of there, this man seems to be very knowledgable and sounds like a great motor builder from speaking with him, and a nice guy to boot. in a very humble and honest way, is thier anything that im doing that is wrong? Where do you guys think i should go for a matched set? im going to call vpw tomorrow, thanks for your advice don c.

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You keep defending your engine guy who is obviously trying to play you like a fiddle and you keep asking what forum members think, getting the advice, and promptly ignoring it.

Then asking another question and ignoring those answers.

I'm curious as to why ask if the answers are ignored???

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