fdwrench Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I am happy that I found this place. There is a lot of good information and I am sure the answers are already somewhere in the forum. I have been adding pieces as I can afford them to my 52 business coupe. It has a later model 230 I have an Offinhouser two one manifold, Langdon’s exhaust and now Earl Edgerton’s head. Some questions on the head instillation: What type of head gasket, does it matter? Torque? Coolant, Somewhere I heard 100% antifreeze Spark plugs, A few more threads in Earl’s head, A little longer reach plug” Any other things that you may wont to say about installing an aluminum head. Thank you Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I would give Earl a call regarding torque, gaskets and sprak plugs. Or send a PM to Blueskies and see what Pete is running on his very similar set up. I have never seen a recommendation for more than a 60% coolant solution, and gennerally 50/50 is pretty universal. Would like to see some pics of you engine and your new parts. It wil be a nice set up once installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claybill Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 if there is a water jacket hole in the rear of the head for the heater system etc....use it! it will keep that back cyl a little cooler. we measured a 10 degree difference without it. bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I haven't built my engine yet but it will be the same as yours, I have the 230, Edgy head, twin carbs,split exhaust, S10 dissy, etc, etc and I was concerned about using the standard head gaskets which are a copper gasket.........Aluminium doesn't like copper and I went looking for a straight steel gasket......Best Gasket in California makes them, I got a full gasket set with the steel head gasket no problem.....as mentioned none of this is together yet....haven't got Best Gaskets address on hand but do a search and they come up, the steel gaskets I think from memory have a."S" either before or after the number........check with flathead ford builders to be certain re this steel gasket thing if you like.........andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I used a standard copper gasket sprayed with copper head gasket sealant stuff. This was Edgerton's recommendation at the time. I also used ARP head studs, nuts, and washers. These studs give you a much better torque reading and better clamping power than regular head bolts. Don't re-use your old head bolts, they aren't worth the trouble... If I remember right, I have the head studs torqued at about 65 or 70 lbs. I'm also running Autolite 303 spark plugs, again, per Edgerton's recommendation. I think they are standard length plugs. I've had my engine on the road for about 15,000 miles, and ... no issues with the head what so ever.Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Pete, It sounds like you torqued the studs to the same value that headbolts would use, which is seriously overtorquing. With the fine pitch on the studs, you really only need 55-60 to get the same clamping power as 70 on headbolts. That said, I initially did the exact same thing when I first installed my Edmunds head. Ran it that way for about a year, then replaced the head gasket and torqued them to just 55 lb.; no problems either before or after. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 ...It sounds like you torqued the studs to the same value that headbolts ... Marty- I might be remembering the stock bolt torque number... it's been so long now that I can't really remember. CRS is a terrible thing At any rate, the head hasn't budged and I've put it through it's paces more than once. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Marty & Pete.......are you both running the standard head gaskets without any problem?.........I was always told that alloy & copper are not to be used together.......I have the ARP head studs, washers & nuts and was gunna use them on my edgy head, if I ever get around to it.......any info re the copper/alloy reaction etc would be appreciated.....thanks, andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Marty & Pete.......are you both running the standard head gaskets without any problem?.........I was always told that alloy & copper are not to be used together.......I have the ARP head studs, washers & nuts and was gunna use them on my edgy head, if I ever get around to it.......any info re the copper/alloy reaction etc would be appreciated.....thanks, andyd I'm running a standard FelPro headgasket with ARP studs on my Edmunds head. I coated the top side of the gasket with Gasgacinch when installed. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 CRS is a terrible thing Pete What is CRS ? I just can't seem to remember if I have been diagnosed with this condition or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I used to know, but I forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpn23748 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I have a Edgy head, ARP Studs, FelPro gasket, and torgued to 65 ft lbs on my 265 Long block, no problems after 1500 miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cicciobilly Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 hi guys! i just started working on my d24 to put it back on the road, about your setups...i was able to find informations on more or less everything you're talking about, but not a lot about edgy heads...what about the price? and reliability?? just curious! it will be a long time before i want/need to buy parts like this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 What is CRS ? I just can't seem to remember if I have been diagnosed with this condition or not. Can't Remember Sh!t. I think you must have it Reg... if you cant seem to remember... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 ...but not a lot about edgy heads...what about the price? and reliability??... Wicked expensive, around $650 last time I checked... But, brand new, and by the time you pay through the nose for a vintage head that has already been milled to death, has chipped fins, and stripped spark plug holes, they are a bargain in my opinion. That is, if you really want a finned head. On a 230, the Edgy head gives you 9:1 compression. Factory was around 7:1. I've driven mine halfway across the country and back, and use it for a daily driver when there isn't snow on the ground. I haven't had a single issue with the head, and would do it all over again, assuming I'd ever have the cash for another... Here's a link to Earl Edgerton's website. I've met Earl on several occasions on the Salt Flats and watched him make his maiden run with an EDGY equipped Chrysler long block. He's a great guy, and turns out great stuff. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdwrench Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Thanks a lot for all of the good advice. I put the head on and fired it up tonight. It sounds pretty good. It does have a little putt-putt. I will tweak on the carburetors and timing tomorrow. Any thoughts on timing? I used ARP studs, washers and nuts and torqued them to 60 pounds. I used a Felpro gasket and coated it with copper coat. Autolite 303 plugs. Anyone know the torque on the plugs? 50% antifreeze. I could not figure out how to use the stock throttle linkage so I got one from Lokar. The next thing is to do something with the oil filter. This car set out in a field for some time. One good thing you do not have to roll down the window to spit, just spit through the holes in the floor. I will try to attach a picture or two. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldbusdriver Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 if my memory serves me right, when using to different alloys in an engine, iron+alum, or copper+alum, or any combo of alloys, the problem created is in the cooling system. the coolant act like an acid, and creates a mild electrical charge which will slowly eat away at the softest material, usually aluminum. basically it make your engine a really weak battery. the navy uses a small plate of zinc called a "sacrificial annode" on the sides of the ship to slow the rusting of the hull. they make automotive radiator caps that have this same thing attached, and the annode gets worn away and not your head or gasket and such. once its used up, just get another and your all set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Baldbusdriver...........this is what I was refering to, the copper apparently can cause the alloy head to react around where the head bolts or studs are.......my understanding is its not such an issue if you are using the original fastening method, ie ,bolts, as they undo and are physically removed from the hole, but if using steel studs, ie, ARP studs and using just the nuts to hold the head on, when the nuts are removed the studs still remain in the hole thru the alloy head, the copper supposedly can start a reaction with the alloy and this can corrode the head..........making it supposedly difficult to remove the head as there are 21 studs holding the sucker in place.........but I suppose if a good quality antifreeze/water inhibitor is used then this shouldn't happen.......btw this is NO reflection on the Edgy Head or Earls workmanship......I have one and am VERY IMPRESSED with it and intend to use it, but as it cost me over $1000.00 Australian I also intend to make sure it outlives me.........lol...............andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T120 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I read where someone recommended spraying a head gasket with a coat of aluminum paint prior to installation.Not something I've tried.It was awhile back and I think they were rebuilding a Ford flathead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Dad and I did that on a parts car he had with a used head gasket. We pulled the head to smack the stuck valves and then sprayed it and put it back on. Car drove fine the rest of the summer until we parted it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 if my memory serves me right, when using to different alloys in an engine, iron+alum, or copper+alum, or any combo of alloys, the problem created is in the cooling system. the coolant act like an acid, and creates a mild electrical charge which will slowly eat away at the softest material, usually aluminum. basically it make your engine a really weak battery. the navy uses a small plate of zinc called a "sacrificial annode" on the sides of the ship to slow the rusting of the hull. they make automotive radiator caps that have this same thing attached, and the annode gets worn away and not your head or gasket and such. once its used up, just get another and your all set. The corrosion is caused by Galvanic Corrosion... From the web- When a galvanic couple forms, one of the metals in the couple becomes the anode and corrodes faster than it would all by itself, while the other becomes the cathode and corrodes slower than it would alone. For galvanic corrosion to occur, three conditions must be present: Electrochemically dissimilar metals must be present These metals must be in electrical contact, and The metals must be exposed to an electrolyte The relative nobility of a material can be predicted by measuring its corrosion potential. The well known galvanic series lists the relative nobility of certain materials in sea water. A small anode/cathode area ratio is highly undesirable. In this case, the galvanic current is concentrated onto a small anodic area. Rapid thickness loss of the dissolving anode tends to occur under these conditions. Galvanic corrosion problems should be solved by designing to avoid these problems in the first place.If you take a look at the Galvanic Series, aluminum and cast iron are only a couple of steps away from each other, and copper is farther down the list. The farther away they are from each other on the list, the worse the corrosion problem. Seems to me, from looking at the list, that the difference in galvanic action between copper/cast iron and copper/aluminum is relatively minor. That, and the steel studs are next door to aluminum on the galvanic series too. I've heard that the head can be a bugger to get off with the studs, but when I removed my EDGY head after 10,000 miles, it came off like it had been put on the day before. I'm hoping I will never have to take it off again, so I'm not too worried about it... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 A question for the Edgy users; is the sparkplug 3/8" reach like the stock head, or is it 1/2" reach? I know my Edmunds head is 1/2", and I had to do some work to clean up the sparkplug threads because someone had run 3/8" plugs in my head before me. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdwrench Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I'm stupid, I took the car around the block. There was a noticeable increase in response and acceleration. I was impressed. I got it back and raised the hood. coolant leaking from three center head studs. When I had the head off I noticed that there were what seemed to be cracks between the center bolt holes and a coolant passage next to it in the deck. I said to my self.....self it will be alright....not. Anyone know of a rebuildable engine in northern California?. Maybe a little alumaseal will get me by until I find one. I did ask Earl Edgerton about what plug to use. Autolite 303. They do seem kind of short. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskies Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 ... coolant leaking from three center head studs.... Did you use thread sealant on the head studs that go into the water jacket? If not, might just be seeping around the studs... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (SNIP) I did ask Earl Edgerton about what plug to use. Autolite 303. They do seem kind of short. Ed I just looked up the 303, and it is a 3/8" reach plug. If the threaded part of the body ends up flush with the combustion chamber surface, then it is the right plug. My Edmunds head had 1/8" of thread still showing with that style of plug, but switching to a 1/2" reach plug fixed that. Just make sure you use a metallic-type of antiseize compound on the threads and then torque it down to spec; overtightening it will pull the threads out of the head! Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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