aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I put in my oil pump today.I primed it and when I got it in I pulled the plugs, cranked it and got oil pressure. After doing this I forgot to turn the ignition off it was on for a few minutes. Once everything was back together the car would not start. I checked for spark and there was none. Did I fry something by not turning off the ignition. What do I need to change? I pulled the distributor and have it on the bench now. Is there any tests that I can do to see if the coil and condenser are good? Or should I just buy both new and change the points while I am at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) When you put in the pump it needs to be indexed so you don't change the ignition timing, since the distributor is driven off the oil pump. If you didn't index it, the timing is possibly so far off that it won't fire. Have you got a service manual that talks about indexing the oil pump? It's something you can fix pretty easily. We can probably talk you through correcting that. If the ignition is left on for quite some time, and if the points happen to be closed at the time, you can burn up the contacts on your points. That would be pretty evident on a visual inspection of the points. Here's a link with some background about the oil pump, timing, and how to synch them up: http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=5919&highlight=index+pump Edited November 23, 2009 by Normspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Could have overheaed the coil as it is likely the oints are closed so the coil is in soak mode, as the points are likely closed when you release the starter. Have you tried it after the coil had a chance to cool down?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I indexed it by following the manual. At first I had TDC at the 3 o'clock position without knowing. I was 180 off , I re indexed it so the #1 piston was at TDC. This put the rotor at the 7 o'clock position. I just tried to ground the coil wire to the head hit the starter and did not see any sparks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randroid Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 aero, If the points are closed and the ignition is left on, the most likely thing to happen is the condenser will get toasted. Fortunately this is also the least expensive of the parts subject to damage for this minor transgression. Before you replace, test, or index anything else try replacing the condenser. Sort of like if you charge a battery while it's still connected with an alternator in the system, IF things are aligned properly you'll fry a diode or two. This is from personal experience. -Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIPJOBXX Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 ls there any juice to the points? Just take a screw driver and ground out the points. You should get a spark. And being so close to the distributor while pulling out the oil pump could you have knocked oft the lead wire going to the distributor? Also when you do short out the points hold the coil wire a little bit away from the engine block and you should see a spark jump from the coil wire to the block. I also would check to see if your lead wire running inside the distributor to the points is not grounding out or frayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Do you guys have a part number for the condenser? Can these be bought off the shelf or will I have to order online. Also if you have the part numbers for the coil,rotor, cap and points just in case that would be great. I do not think I have a external resistor or at least I have never seen one. Is there a tune up Kit that can be bought ? If yes where can I get the kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I indexed it by following the manual. At first I had TDC at the 3 o'clock position without knowing. I was 180 off , I re indexed it so the #1 piston was at TDC. This put the rotor at the 7 o'clock position. I just tried to ground the coil wire to the head hit the starter and did not see any sparks. Was #1 at TDC on the compression stroke? You could still be 180 degrees off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yes, it is now on the compression stroke. At first I think I had the # 6 cylinder on the compression stroke. Even If I was off shouldn't I still get spark at the plugs? I know it will not run but I think I should see a spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 yes..you should still see a spark regardless of proper timing or syncing to #1 cylinder...have you observed that the points do in fact open..if you left the ignition on during the long period this was off..it could very well have heated a couple of items, the coil is the main consumer of amperage, the condenser.. usually not a problem as it is there to supress the spark across the points as they open..third is th points themselves are burn to the point that they are not conducting voltage through the coil to ground..my main guess with the condition at hand..burnish the contact, ensure proper gap and retest..remember the coil will only fire when the points open and the coil's field collaspes..if the point have high resistance across the contact there will be no conduction, no saturation of the coil and no spark when the points open for technically they are remaining in an opened condition due to being fouled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Are you getting voltage to the ignition side of the coil and to the points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Don has a valid point, in my post above I assumed that this is the first check anyone would make in troubleshooting the ignition.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yes the points do open.How do I hook up the meter to check the voltage to the ignition side of the coil and to points Don? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 observe directions that come with the meter you have in your shop..else, quick review of volt/ohm meter instructions on the WWW would be of great benefit to you.. observe polarity of test leads IAW your vehicle in question.....one lead grounded the other to anywhere you want to read volts, select DC volts, set scale for proper volt range...negative reading on scale reverse leads.. NOTE...as a general rule: ALWAYS when testing unknown volts start with highest indicated volt scale and work down till reading is obtained..do not try to read secondary voltage out of the coil tower or any other high tension plug wire..these test are made static in ohms only.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yes the points do open.How do I hook up the meter to check the voltage to the ignition side of the coil and to points Don? Make sure your distributor points are open then ground one lead of your meter or test light to the engine block and touch both primary wires to and from the coil one at a time with the other lead. The ignition switch must be in the on position when you do this test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 a quick test is to have the engine rotated to a position tha tthe points cam is hold the points open...at this time the coild wire can be removed from the input to the distributor cap and placed near grounded metal...shorting across the contacts of the points will generate a spark if opertion of the circuit is good.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 With the points open I just grounded them out with the ignition on and I got a spark. What does this tell us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Guys don't laugh at me but I think I found my problem. I have a push button under the hood on my starter solenoid. I have been using this to crank the engine and to test for spark. What I just realized is that I did not have the key in the ignition in the on position while doing this. That is why I did not have any spark when testing yesterday! I do not have time right now to put it back together and test (have to go to work) but I think this may be it. I will let you guys know later what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Yep for some reason those engineers figured that the pesky key should have something to do with whether there was power to the ign system. Go figure. I wonder how many others of us had the same thing happen at oe time or another. Edited November 23, 2009 by greg g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I usually try to start mine without putting the rotor back on. Several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yep for some reason those engineers figured that the pesky key should have something to do with weather there was power to the ign system. Go figure. I wonder how many others of us had the same thing happen at oe time or another. Greg at least once a year I manage to do this im my old truck. With the foot pedal starter the engine will turn over regardless of the key. So I'll be cranking and cranking wondering why it won't fire. Good way to flood the engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Yergin Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Like Ed, I have done the same thing with my foot starter '41 Plymouth wagon. Jim Yergin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Me too. Crank, Crank, Crank,... "Why won't this **** thing start!!!!!" Then notice the key is still in the off position. "DUH!!!" Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furylee2 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Greg at least once a year I manage to do this im my old truck. With the foot pedal starter the engine will turn over regardless of the key. So I'll be cranking and cranking wondering why it won't fire. Good way to flood the engine! Been there, done that! Both with the 41 coupe and 37 sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIPJOBXX Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well we call that a brain fart up here in the northwest! But I know we all have done stupid things in the past when it comes to cars. I remember back in high school when I had a model A Sedan and was driving down the road when all of a sudden the back end dropped to the ground and the rear tire just went right past me. Must have forgotten to tighten the lug nuts! Got out and retrieved that tire and rim and installed it and back on the road!!! But that was something else just to see that tire fly by me and head up the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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