fstfish66 Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Got the maching done on the steering arms and put the whole thing back together today just to see what would hit and what wouldn't. Well the steering arms will require some more work. Also would like to find some different rotors that don't space the wheel as far out as the volarie rotors. If not i can live with it. Gotta take it all apart tomorrow and get some more stuff figured out. What ya think of the buick bumper?? me like. Its next wooow man thats kool,,,,there is a topic on the hamb, a guy made his own front disc kit, using off the shelf modern parts,,he machined down the hub to fit in side of a 2001 dodge stratus rotor,,,GM caliper,,and made his own bracketry,, one guy mentioned the volare rotors would of gave him more space,,i thought of it reading your posting,,, the topic is called cheap dodge discs nice article with some pics,,maybe this wil help you,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I recognize that bumper:D Lookin good man! These pictures are from a few years back. I extended the hood down a couple of inches, but I hadn't smoothed it yet. I have the other part of the grill on it now, just don't know where any pictures are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Fred Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 your car looks great, wow! the bumber is far better than the one you had on there before. i love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) Are you going to use the teeth? If not are you going to cut from the center section, or the ends? I had to cut about 6" from each of the ends, with the seams under the big teeth on the ends. I found another picture of mine, finished. Edited December 20, 2009 by moose___ add photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankwilson Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Im gonna run the same bumper in the back as the front. They are the rear bumper off a 50 buick. I am going to narrow both front and rear bumpers but differernt. I want to keep the bumperettes in place on the back so i will probably take some of the ribbed part out of the back. The front i would like to have the ribbed section go completely accross the car so i will take the ribbed parts out of the back and put them in the front and take the flat part out of the middle. Will probably mount my car club plaque in the front where the plate would go. I NEED HELP. I must be missing something. I worked on the steering arms today. I have them countersunk just like in the Rod & Custom article. Once all bolted up they still hit the lower A arm. Gonna have to either make new steering arms or highly modify my stock ones. What do you guys think?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Do you think you could heat the boss material on the lower A arms in the location where they hit and massage to clear with a little heat and hammer work? I am having the same problem on the ones that I have mocked up also. I thought about heating the arms just behind the rear bolt boss and bend them up to clear the ends of the A arms and then heating the middle of the arms and bending them back down to the original height. I would prefer not to heat the arms if possible but I want to be able to turn a sharp corner in either direction before I install the whole front suspension onto my P-15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatDSoto Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I am in the proces of installing the lowered uprights and disk conversion on my '41 DeSoto coupe. Rather than to try and bend the driver side steering arm by heating, I found a guy that had another passenegr side arm. I then heated it and changed the offset towards the center of the car. I will turn it upside down on the same passenger side of the car, this will give me the same drop and length on both arms. I will have to make a spacer so the arm fits flat against the spindle back (don't know the proper name). I will have the bolts countersunk. In theory I think it will work. I will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstfish66 Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 i was thinking the same thing,,,find another steering arm from another car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'm not sure, but something in the back of my head is nagging me that you have to check both the steering arms and the steering box arm to make sure which way the tapered ball joints go in. I think I had to change how the steering arms were bent so that both of the tierods were straight when I did mine. Also, if you are running wider than stock tires, make sure you leave enough clearance between the tires and the tirerod ends; I found out the hard way when I went around the first corner and the tierod ends sliced through the most of the cords in the sidewalls of my brand new BFG T/A's! Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 If you are running disc brakes the arms are already spaced 3/8" away from the original position because of the adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklyn49 Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Also, if you are running wider than stock tires, make sure you leave enough clearance between the tires and the tirerod ends; I found out the hard way when I went around the first corner and the tierod ends sliced through the most of the cords in the sidewalls of my brand new BFG T/A's! Marty Is there an fairly easy way to fix this? I have just upgraded to radial tires, for safety purposes on my 49 plymouth, they are a bit wider than stock and have found that in a tight turn the tierod end does in fact rub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankwilson Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 ????? How do the tie rods hit in a turn? Do they get longer?? I am confussed:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 As the whells travel through their arc, the steering rods and the ends follow the arc as such the angle changes from paralles straight ahead to slightly forward at full travel interfeerig with the A arm as it stays stationary in relation to the changing angle of the rod. So as you turn to the right, the left angle decreases from parallel to a forward angle while the other side increases gaining clearence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 I have to dissagree on that. The wheel/tire assembly is mounted stationary to the knuckle/steering arm assembly so that no change in distance between them is possible regardless of the angle of the wheels in relation to the car. Tire deflection during a turn is the only way the distance could change, and that would only be at the bottom of the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Neil this is the situation I was tiniking about, illustrated by the allaignment on the right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 I see, but as the tie rod moves right, the tire moves the same distance. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Neil this is the situation I was tiniking about, illustrated by the allaignment on the right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 what Greg is displaying is seen by paying close attention the tie rod itself in its close proximity to the axle when turn to the right....while this does not describe a wheel scrub it does portray the scrub of the drag link and will come very close to mimicking the set up explained by Tank...or at least as I read it..his gap per say is lessening in apex of the turn...I asked earlier about the shape of the tie rods in his application and the position of his rack rearward of the lower A-arms..position is critcal in order to prevent contact in the steering linkage to mounted suspension components..next week, the Ackerman angles and how they affect your handling.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 OK, its early in the morning and I am unusually slow, but now I see what you are referring to. It is now obvious that the distance between the tie rod end and the knuckle changes, but the distance between the tie rod and the sidewall of the tire remains the same. I think. I guess I gotta go crawl under the car, its the only way I can learn, through labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 the scrub of the wheel is only present during flex of tire on cornering and these cars in their design is very close with use of original rims and more narrow stock tires..change the rim or the tire you get a bit closer and will make scrub a greater issue...change both rim and tire to modern width and radial design and the rub will be guaranteed..further bending of the link will be needed to correct this or positive offset the wheel with a spacer..the use of a hub concentric spacer both inner and outer is paramount to securing the rims without putting pressure on the mounting studs..the hub should displace this weight..not the mounting bolts.. as the article in Hot rod did indeed make use of Plydo/Fatman components..their article did not fully explain the positioning of the rack and tie rods themselves in relation to the stationary suspension components, primary the pivoting point of these components..the instruction that come with the kits are a bit more in detail and address these issues but vaguely as you have to determine you best position based on a zero bumpsteer ideal to the location of the rack..this is the trade off you have in modifications.. Using the lowering spindle also supplied by these folks further causes the fat section of a ballon tire to be closer to the tie rod end as the suspension is dopped closer to the ground in relationship to tire/wheel assembly. Adding yet again to the inner scrub issue when turning. Now in regard to Tank's original problem and the lack of input as to position o fhis components etc etc..a picture would be invaluable here, my concern in his set up is the two parrallel lines one must establish and maintain in the setup along with centering of the rack to the frame. The tie rods drop below the rack and are curved in such a manner to maintain the center line of the R&P at the rod ends, this is acheived by curving the links so that the rod ends are parallel of the rack ends themselves..the rack itself should be mounted centerline at the same height as the inner A-arm pivot bolts..this is for the prevention of bumpsteer..you can alter this plus or minus an inch with some a small amount of bumpsteer as the trade off..do this only to clear engine oil pans etc etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankwilson Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Ok guys... my main problem is that when my front end is mocked up, my steering arms hit the lower A arm (not the upright) before the wheels are completely turned. I am not worried about the bump steer right now. Remember i have airbags and i need to position my steering arm and tie rods so that they don't hit anything when the suspension is down. Also i will need to make sure the shocks i pic will be long and short enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james curl Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 This is the same problem that I am having on my mocked up front suspension with the used Fatman dropped uprights. Both steering arms had been heated and reshaped before I got them. and the disc brake adapter which is 3/8" steel plate moves the steering arms that much closer to the A frames than they were stock and then move them up 2 1/2" and they interfere with the movement of the inside wheel when turned all the way in either direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) Tank..got a number of questions..sending PM on my car in max trun radius I have a finger width between the two points at all times..by looking however..the lower A-arm and the steering link should be reversed...the inboard negative angle of the a-arm should be toward the rear of the car as the same with the steering arm, point to the rear..it is this negative angle that provides the clearance you need to prevent hitting. IF you are going for a forward steer rack based on the LH platform or other donor, then your steering arms will definitely have to be custom made.. Edited December 25, 2009 by Tim Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Tank, I don't think there is an easy answer to your problem, as the dropped spindle has raised the stub axle and consequently the steering arms which as you indicate are fouling on the lower arm................you say you are going to run airbags......have you tried the front end with the standard spindle and airbags?........it won't be as low but I would think it would still be able to get reasonablely low.......also have you given any thought to lowering the actual spring mount/pocket thats riveted into the lower A arm, this would still not affect the steering arm/spindle relationship which is the problem at present yet would lower the car by at least 1-2" and still allow you to use the airbags to their fullest...........on my 40 Dodge I have cast steel upper arms(moog, I think?) with the 40 Spindle, 54 stub axle, Vented 11" discs& calipers, 1" sway bar with heim jointed adjustable ends, mid 50's Ford coils with 1 coil removed, 9" shortened BMC Austin 1800 Rack & Pinion with shortened steering arms(cut, welded and reforged by an Automotive Blacksmith)........I also run 14" rims on the front, its not groundscrapping but much lower than stock..........have also attached a pic of the 41 Plymouth that only has had 1 coil removed and is running 15x6 rims and Coker Radials, if anything it seems to sit lower than the Dodge(think its the larger diameter tyres on the Plymouth that give that illusion), anyway I'd be curious whether going back to the stock spindle with the airbags would alleviate some of your problem......regards, andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankwilson Posted December 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 (edited) ???????? the top pic is of the right side looking down and the bottom pic is of the left side looking up. Yes the steering arms and stop is towards the rear of the car. I have countersunk and flipped the steering arms from side to side. There is no way to mount the lower A arms on the wrong side. What do i have wrong? I know the R&C artical says to heat and bend the one arm down but if i do that they will hit even more. I am only in the mockup stage and I may not be off as much as i thought. I went out and turned my parts car completely to the left to see how much it turned before hitting the stops. Tim im not following what your saying on in your first paragraph. Tank..got a number of questions..sending PM on my car in max trun radius I have a finger width between the two points at all times..by looking however..the lower A-arm and the steering link should be reversed...the inboard negative angle of the a-arm should be toward the rear of the car as the same with the steering arm, point to the rear..it is this negative angle that provides the clearance you need to prevent hitting.IF you are going for a forward steer rack based on the LH platform or other donor, then your steering arms will definitely have to be custom made.. I have been running airbags for the past 2 years with the stock uprights and have gotten it as low as i can with that setup. I have decided to do the brakes this winter and thought i might as well do the uprights while im at it. Edited December 25, 2009 by tankwilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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