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POC President Election


Captain Neon

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IMHO, the Plymouth Owners Club is probably more accurately a franchise. Where does all of the money go? Good question. One cannot ask such questions over at the POC forum.

I often wonder if I am getting much of a deal at $5/issue which is why I am very concerned about dues being raised to pay for more functions. I know that the POC pays the national President's travel costs to the national meets, but this is never clearly defined. If I were defining this cost, I'd figure out how much a plane ticket + mileage to and from nearest aerodrome + parking, and then give him that amount in cash. Others may be more broad in just what transportation costs may entail and what they allow the national President to expense as "travel costs" to attend national meets.

A discrepancy of over $60K between your estimated costs and the POC's stated costs does raise eyebrows. Where does this $60K go? Who benefits?

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Ben,

I will say, if the printer isn't using modern gang printing methods, it's much more expensive to print the old way of 4 pages at a time. For example, before I found the printer in Chicago that did gang printing, my 27 page catalog cost was about $1.00 to $2.00 per copy without any pictures, and that was the cost for two color only. So........as you can see gang printing is much less cost. So...........most of that money is probably going to the printer. But.....this only shows the deep mind set of keeping things at the status quo and being afraid to try something new, just like the rule changes you guys are talking about.

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I don't see how you can complain about $25.00 for a yearly fee with the great magazine the POC publishes. I am president of our local car club and we just raised fees from $25 to $30. Our monthly paper published 10 times a year (Yes in Canada we have 12 months but the editor does not publish in the summer) is on standard black and white paper and fairly cheap. We also host a few club functions out of these fees. However, if you think more than $25 dollars a year to join a club with a great paper is too much, you need to think again. It is a bargain. Where else can you buy a magazine of that quality with no advertsing for that price? I am not a member of the POC, except for one year, but their fees are very reasonable. Everything else has gone up incredibly and their fees are a bargain. If you don't like what they are doing, get more involved and try to change things instead of complaining all the time. I may not be a fan of some of the things the POC does or stands for, but I do know that to run a club of that size is difficult and incredibly time consuming. Quit your bellyaching or do something constructive. If this reply gets me a two week suspension, so be it.

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I now hold the office of Secretary for the POC Dairyland Region. I have recorded all meetings I attended nationally or locally and I have learned and observed much. First, I am sorry that members have been treated harshly, a critical spirit does permeate the organization. Mailing out the Plymouth Quarterly is a huge expense and takes up a major portion of the budget. While printed in the USA, it is actually shipped to Sweden and mailed from there to obtain the most economical postage delivery. Requirements for national president are past local presidency or a previous National Oficer position. I never knew of Nick DeSimone but if he has actually had success with recruiting young members and networking with other club regions, then he has grasped an essential idea for the long term life of the Club. Both President Kiericco and Vice President Berkheimer have stated this at the Detroit Grand National Meet 2008 as needed adjustment in the Club operation. Members with less polished pocketbooks and cars with more patina should be welcomed into the club. I have heard the name of Carl VanBibber for many years and I did meet meet him at Oconomowoc. He was personable and I thought that he intensely enjoyed the Club. He has a major following among the hugely active Eastern regions. His cars do win awards but I do not detect ego and status in his winning, just enjoyment of the hobby. Richard Silhol I know very well having served under him for two years. He ran this years National Meet in Oconomowoc and he did it profitably. Members are saying that Dick will shake up the "Good Old Boy Network". Dick can get things done but he rarely praises a good performance. He will zealously carry the Club banner of authenticity. I am unsure what the double whammy effect of another Earl Buton will have on the life of the Club.

Finally, I have known Norm for many years and many years ago he nailed the problem of the POC. Members want to drive and enjoy their cars. They do not necessarily want to spend the money to make them look like they came out of the factory. They may want a retro look but they also want the comforts and safety that modern technology brings. Thomas Russom

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Thank you, Tom. I appreciate your candor. I would be interested in knowing whether or not the recent meet in Maryland also managed to pay for itself.

Rob, I realise that my tone at times can be critical. One of the reasons why I am pretty good at my job. I work in Quality Control. Don C. knows the type well. :) I may not be stellar at it, but after a while of looking for problems, and pointing them out it becomes second nature.

I actually do not have a problem with $30/yr dues. I've stated that before. However, as Norm pointed out, they may be able to reduce what is now 90% of their expenses my almost 2/3. This would open up a lot of funds to advertise the club more, and allow them to take a few risks that would otherwise be impossible due to lack of funds. It will also allow for the eventuality of having to hire an editor of the club magazine.

I would like to be more active. I even made myself available to my old region when I lived in Colorado for a year. I'm sure that the folks in the Mid-Iowa and Heart of America regions are good folk, but it is just too far to drive to attend their events even if the time was available and convenient.

I took a look at the roster (thanks, Tod), and there aren't four other POC members within 90 miles of me to even consider starting up a region in my neck of the woods. It is not a matter of having time, it is simply a matter of schedule coordination. I have what many people call an unorthodox schedule. I go to work when most people are leaving, and I get home a few hours before most people are even up yet. I usu. work Saturdays so I'm usu. whipped by the time I get up on Sunday afternoon when most car activities are winding down to begin the typical workweek. I'm back to work again on Monday afternoon.

I am aware that folks in the POC read this forum so I share my ideas here where they will not usu. be censored, and maybe some one who has the ear of those making decisions can be a better influence than lil ol' me. I had never even considered that the POC may be overpaying for the Plymouth Bulletin until Norm pointed out his costs to publish something similar.

Why post about the POC here? Frankly, because there are more POC members on this forum than there are on the POC's own forum. Most of them are at least sympathetic here, and this is where the discussion is taking place. Over there, it is reminiscent of a funeral.

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Ben, thanks for the explanation as it does explain better where you are coming from. Sorry if I jumped the gun. I think we would both like to see the same thing, a better POC we would both feel more comfortable in.

Edited by RobertKB
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I have followed this thread with interest as I would actually like to attend one of their national events someday. I just would like to have myself and the car accepted. I attended a show earlier this year where I had several comments made about it due to it having a GM alternator on otherwise a basically stock car.

I think I would just like to be accepted as I am. A fellow enthusiast who enjoys my old Plymouth. I don't want to feel out of place just because my car is not a stock vehicle. If I do feel that way at a show or event I usually try to avoid those types of events. I've been to street rod shows and other modified car events and have always been fully accepted and have met some great friends at those shows. As all cars are accepted.

I think you guys have some good ideas and hope this changes someday for the benefit of the guys who just want to have fun driving and enjoying their cars.

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Steve,

Well put, that's the same as I feel. But.......at one of the Goodguys shows where I had entered my coupe I had some guy do the same to me. He started looking over the coupe, then said the seat covers were not original, the hubcaps were not original (have the spinners on it), the engine was painted the wrong color and so on. Guess he had just purchased a P15 coupe not long before that and said he was restoring it to original. Said mine was not original. I promptly informed him he was at the wrong show to see all original cars. This was a custom/street rod show. This is the way I wanted my coupe, not the way the purist wants it. Told him if he wanted to see original only he should only go to those shows.:D

The above happened sometime between 04 and 06. Now, fast forward to this past summer. I was at a local cruise in without my coupe walking around looking at the cars when I spotted a P15 coupe sitting there, so went over for a look. The owner was right there with his car, AND, he was none other than the guy who said he was restoring his coupe to all original and mine wasn't original. I don't think he recognized me, but I did him due to his comments at the Goodguys a few years ago. I did not say anything about that. Now, here's the kicker. He was real proud of what he did to his car, as anyone should be. It looked nice but had a cheap paint job and was not an original color. The engine was the original color, but.......it had dual carbs on it, with dual exhaust, with loud glasspak mufflers with a nice rap to them. The interior was nice too. But........the seat covering was not original, the dash was painted and he had house carpet on the floor. In the rear he had wide wheels and tires, with radials all the way around. The hubcaps were the flat brushed aluminum racing disc that get screwed onto the wheel. AND REMEMBER, this is all from the guy who said my coupe wasn't original and he was keeping his original just a few years before.:D:D

So.......do what I do with those critics. Brush them off. More than likely their cars are not all original either if you look closely.;)

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Bob, can you elaborate about Nick's "realist" "westerner" "ideas that may not always sit well with those in eastern parts of this country?" I'd love to hear them. The problem is that no one is addressing the issues. They just all claim to be doing a great job as a regional president and that the national meet that they had was a rousing success. How do they quantify that they were "huge successes?"

This Missouri redneck contends that reality is that over 2000 members of the POC like to get their Plymouth Bulletin, and could care less about national events or region activities. This Missouri redneck does not equate success with an event that doesn't at least break even.

We've been told that the Santa Maria car show did not even break even and that the region had to make up the deficit. I don't know if this is typical or not. I think the 2000+ subscribers to the Plymouth Bulletin that don't go to national meets for various reasons would rather not see their dues go up more to subsidise more events. As most members do not attend national meets, maybe reality is that they should be discontinued rather than a larger subsidy be given to the regions to hold them. As everyone is driving to these events, perhaps, it may be wiser that these national meets be held in smaller towns that have less traffic and lower cost accomodations.

I have a big question for you that may result in showing the true colours as to the knowledge that you seem to be creating as you go along. That being: "Exactly where are you getting your information?"

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, would know better that I would as to the break even point of the Santa Maria National. You see, my wife and I are the clubs treasurers and have been since the club opened its doors. Not only did the meet make money but that resulted in the clubs lowering of the membership fees for the following year. We've donated funds to various individuals since then and still have a surplus. So, it would appear, to me, that this clubs financial position is in great shape as a result of the clubs past management.

I do hope that this will clear up the misinformation being spouted off by an individual that seems to have an agenda to fill and will do so at all costs... Even to the point of delivering information that fits his and only his needs rather than the real truth. What is said in the future should questioned before believing. Misinformation is misinformation and calling it anything else does not change the fact that it is still misinformation.

In his defense, perhaps his information is what was actually told to him. If that is the case I ask him to please research his future statements based on his sources past performance. If this information was given to him it was false and don't accept it in the future until he makes sure it is true.

Enough said, period!!!

Edited by bob_amos
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Regarding costs, the Golden State Region barely broke even on the event. And that was only because one of the region members made very substantial donations specifically for the event. The cost of entry did not come close to covering the costs the region incurred.

This is where I got my information, Bob. From your region's own webmaster. Do not accuse me of having an agenda!

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Many of us who belong to the POC are very appreciative of the "non-purists" and really enjoy seeing any Plymouth, original or rodded, restored or unrestored. For that matter, we enjoy just about any old car. At our California POC national, we even gave out awards for a "modified" Plymouth class. So, I think if we all remain open minded, we'll find that we have much more in common than differences. Enjoy!!

I have followed this thread with interest as I would actually like to attend one of their national events someday. I just would like to have myself and the car accepted. I attended a show earlier this year where I had several comments made about it due to it having a GM alternator on otherwise a basically stock car.

I think I would just like to be accepted as I am. A fellow enthusiast who enjoys my old Plymouth. I don't want to feel out of place just because my car is not a stock vehicle. If I do feel that way at a show or event I usually try to avoid those types of events. I've been to street rod shows and other modified car events and have always been fully accepted and have met some great friends at those shows. As all cars are accepted.

I think you guys have some good ideas and hope this changes someday for the benefit of the guys who just want to have fun driving and enjoying their cars.

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Steve' date='

Well put, that's the same as I feel. But.......at one of the Goodguys shows where I had entered my coupe I had some guy do the same to me. He started looking over the coupe, then said the seat covers were not original, the hubcaps were not original (have the spinners on it), the engine was painted the wrong color and so on. Guess he had just purchased a P15 coupe not long before that and said he was restoring it to original. Said mine was not original. I promptly informed him he was at the wrong show to see all original cars. This was a custom/street rod show. This is the way I wanted my coupe, not the way the purist wants it. Told him if he wanted to see original only he should only go to those shows.:D

The above happened sometime between 04 and 06. Now, fast forward to this past summer. I was at a local cruise in without my coupe walking around looking at the cars when I spotted a P15 coupe sitting there, so went over for a look. The owner was right there with his car, AND, he was none other than the guy who said he was restoring his coupe to all original and mine wasn't original. I don't think he recognized me, but I did him due to his comments at the Goodguys a few years ago. I did not say anything about that. Now, here's the kicker. He was real proud of what he did to his car, as anyone should be. It looked nice but had a cheap paint job and was not an original color. The engine was the original color, but.......it had dual carbs on it, with dual exhaust, with loud glasspak mufflers with a nice rap to them. The interior was nice too. But........the seat covering was not original, the dash was painted and he had house carpet on the floor. In the rear he had wide wheels and tires, with radials all the way around. The hubcaps were the flat brushed aluminum racing disc that get screwed onto the wheel. AND REMEMBER, this is all from the guy who said my coupe wasn't original and he was keeping his original just a few years before.:D:D

So.......do what I do with those critics. Brush them off. More than likely their cars are not all original either if you look closely.;)[/quote']

Oft times, big plans change when the costs become apparent. Ideas change. I have changed my mind so many times on how I want to do my '46's upholstery that if some one that I chatted with about it just a couple years ago were to see my current ideas he probably wouldn't recognise the old plan. :) Right now, I'm trying to decide which year Plymouth trunk script to put on the doors...

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I've done that a few times too. I started to paint my car cruiser maroon. Then I was going to paint it charolette ivory. Now Im torn between ivory or a nice flat black job.

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I've done that a few times too. I started to paint my car cruiser maroon. Then I was going to paint it charolette ivory. Now Im torn between ivory or a nice flat black job.

Go maroon. It is an incredibly sexy colour on these cars! Often, the first thought of a process is the right one.

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I've done that a few times too. I started to paint my car cruiser maroon. Then I was going to paint it charolette ivory. Now Im torn between ivory or a nice flat black job.

Flat black with red wheels and a SBC. Then you could have a cookie cutter car very unbecoming for a future POCO official. I liked the looks of a 39-40 furd with red wheels and flat black in 1965. My tastes have changed. I still like a flat black 30-40 furd but I like a colurful P-15 a lot better. Get your head screwed on correctley.:D

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  • 3 months later...

Although I've come on this site from time-to-time, its only recently that I've signed on to post messages. I've read the comments in this thread about the Plymouth Owners Club and find that I am one of the "powers behind the throne" of the club. Yes, I have been around a longtime, as membership secretary, editor and treasurer. Something like 35 years or more. I've met a lot of great people from all over the world, have entertained many people on my own time showing them my cars, touring them around my part of the country, been awakened in the middle of the night to talk with a member from around the world who doesn't realize there is a time difference, been interrupted during more meals than I can count and have had my ear torn off on occassion by some unhappy soul (!) arguing about the fact they didn't win a $15 plastic trophy at the last meet they attended and, yes--met just a few that should have been pushed over a cliff who think that swearing at my wife or kids is going to solve their problems.

But I believe its time for a "power behind the throne" to answer some of the comments that have been raised on this forum. First--and foremost--the Plymouth Club was founded 53 years ago on the premise of promoting the "correct and authentic restoration" of Plymouth's. That is, in fact, the first words of the club's constitution. Unlike one of the postings below that states the writer couldn't find that information, it is posted at the club website for all--member and non-member alike--to see. (www.plymouthbulletin.com)

Allowing modified cars at Plymouth meets has been discussed many times over the years. We know clubs such as the DeSoto Club and Pontiac Club have modified classes but they do NOT have as their founding mission statement "correct and authentic restoration" in their constitution. If we are to maintain authenticity, modified cars simply won't be JUDGED at our meets. You notice I emphasize the word "judged". We have, for many years, allowed modified and non-Plymouth cars to be displayed at our meets. Perhaps I can give an example using a gentleman I know from this area. He has a 1938 Chrysler Imperial rumble seat coupe......an extremely rare car by any standards. He modified the car by installing a diesel engine and an Oldsmobile dashboard. When he took the car to an all Chrysler meet his comment was, "there were only 2 types of people at that meet -- those who wouldn't talk to me because of what I had done to the car -- and those who told me what an a.......e I was for modifying the car." Granted it was his car and he did what he wanted with it -- but taking the car to an non-modified car meet was not to his advantage.

The Plymouth Club is not above allowing safety modifications. In fact, we REQUIRE safety plate glass in windshields (early cars) and turn signals and seat belts, provided they are not haphazardly hung on the car, are accepted.

I really enjoyed "Norm's" comments about how cheaply he could get catalogs printed. According to his theory the Plymouth Club should be able to print its all-color magazine for around $10,000 per year. And at our present dues structure the club should be pocketing about $64,000 in profits. For the record, the club spends on average $12-$13,000 PER ISSUE in printing and postage costs and for the past two years has spent more than it takes in revenue.....He asked where does the money go? The financial statement is printed each year in the Bulletin....but then again, I forgot, Norm is no longer a club member so he is well qualified to make his comments.

I vaguely recall the conversation with Mr. Powers, although I don't recall the specifics but I do remember telling him--and others--that as a non-profit corporation there are simply certain things the club cannot do under IRS ruels and regulations. And while we do not retain an attorney per-se, we do have access to an attorney via our club membership.

Over the years I've heard carping from various individuals from various parts of the country and I've asked them--point blank--name your complaints and make your suggestions. So far, NOT ONE SINGLE person has come forth and taken me up on that offer. The Plymouth Club may not be perfect but a lot of sweat, tears and hard work has gone into making the organization what it has become--a worldwide entity preserving the great cars built by Plymouth.

The club has not been static. When I first joined the only years recognized were 1928 through 1934. Now we recognize all Plymouths (but still maintain a 25-year limit for judging purposes). Judging classes have expanded greatly over the years, including a Senior class for previous winners. Our magazine has gone for a 4-page mimeograph sheet to an all color, multiple award winning magazine.

Yes, we do have a website and forum and yes--it does not generate the traffic this site does...but then we don't have the bantering and bickering I find on this and other MoPar related websites, either.

We welcome on board our new President, Nick Desimone. I know Nick has some new ideas for the club and I look forward to working with him. I recently sent him 25 years worth of officer meeting notes so he has a grasp on what was done by previous administrations over the years.

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Jim ... your comment was:

"Over the years I've heard carping from various individuals from various parts of the country and I've asked them--point blank--name your complaints and make your suggestions. So far, NOT ONE SINGLE person has come forth and taken me up on that offer. The Plymouth Club may not be perfect but a lot of sweat, tears and hard work has gone into making the organization what it has become--a worldwide entity preserving the great cars built by Plymouth."

Several of us have recently posted on the POC website regarding online renewals for POC membership with payment via PayPal. GTK has a PayPal link set up here to allow us to contribute and many of us have done so. So ... there's one suggestion to improve POC .... update the ease at which memberships can be renewed. A small step but clearly an offered recommendation.

John

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How do you incorporate change in a group. Get involved. As far as the POC judging and "modified" cars, A MODIFIED CAR can garner enough points to place at a a National Meet. I Did it, my car won second at the Maryland Meet, and as Greg can attest I did my part in keeping the tailgaters loud and large and had my share of run ins with In Hospitality group. Any and all cars are welcomed, but if you want them judged, there has to be a standard. I'm fine with that. My first meet was at Indianapolis, King Earl (who has now become a very good friend) took one look at my 49 coupe, with dual carbs exhaust, and Chrome foot gas pedal, we like to keep our cars orginal. So right in front of the group who had gathered I said, "Do want me to leave? Oh and I would like a full refund!" He immediatley backed up and started to to explain. I said I'm fine with that. Make you a deal, you spend your money your way, I spend mine how I want to. It gets better, one of the side trips was to a 1/2 mile banked asphalt race track, While others took a lap or two, I stayed out there the whole time, giving rides to others who didn't want to hurt their cars. At that Charlotte meet is when I decided and openly stated I was going to build my 47 with changes and have it judged. Built it, Judged it and won. Mission accomplished. What does the POC and P15-D24 have in common? The love, preservation and driving enjoyment of Old Mopars. I for one, will continue to be part of and attend National POC meets. I also guaratee you the Friday Night Tailgate Parties will continue (Have Grill will Travel) to get bigger, larger and louder (I need my wing man Greg to attend Portland, please put pressure on him) We did get several pictures of the event in this POC publication. Guess what, we /you can make a differnce, attend the Portland meet, I for one am driving out. Meet a new friend, join us for the Friday Tail gate party, and help make your own memories. Mark

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My Only experence with the POC, is Lanny Knutson, Editor of the Magazine, Lanny and I met In Winnipeg last fall at the Mopar show, he is a fine Gentleman, and was just recently in touch with him via email.

Lanny lives nearby, so hope to see him at more future events, I probably may not join the POC as I have a 47 Chrysler, but you never know, would enjoy the magazine at least....Fred

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Is it time to start a new PTC (Plymouth Tailgaters Club) club? Makes me wonder what is the point of attending a POC national meet that makes everyone (myself included) feel unwelcome. I am happy with no entry fee, no judging, no trophies, no bull $hit, but good food, and good fellowship.

Fact: Jim Benjaminson is

knowledgeable. helpful, offers expert advice, a great resource person and provides really nice replacement tires for stock vehicles.

Fact: Not everyone was welcome at the POC 80th anniversary outside of Detroit.

Jim, I have been carping about the rigidity of the POC for the last 12-15 years. I spoke directly to the POC president at the end of the banquet. He clearly understood the issues. Unfortunately Jim B was not in attendance (family issues I believe) so that is correct you were not aware of the issues.

The P15-D24 site has grown while the POC site has withered EXACTLY for these reasons.

In 1988 I dragged my pride and joy 1939 Plymouth Coupe down to Plymouth Michigan for the 70th anniversary of Plymouth. Packed up the 1939 and headed down to Plymouth MI like I was going to Mecca. People were going to join hands, dance and sing Plymouth hymns. Well that was NOT to be.

Although the 1939 is stock vintage car NOT modified it was not a 100 point car. At the time I did not even know what a 100 point car was. I loved my 1939 Plymouth and these "strangers" were picking it apart and dissing it. They were NOT open and inclusive.

So frustrated but NOT defeated I promised myself I would return with a vehicle that would truly SHOCK and AWE the POC! So just like 10 years earlier I packed up and headed down to the POC 80th anniversary of Plymouth National meet. This time I would call Jim B in advance and OK the vehicle I was bringing would be welcomed. Spoke to Jim on the phone and he encouraged me to come down and I would be welcome. Well that didnt happen.

Upon arrival I tried to register and they said "You cant bring a Dodge in here". I explained that the car was a Plymouth bodied "Plodge" and that Jim B. was aware of the vehicle and OKed it. The answer "Jim B. is not here and you have to display the vehicle in the parking lot with the trailers (away from the show field)"

So off I went to the trailer parking lot. Even though I had brought a STOCK original RARE 41000 orig mile Dodge D20 A/S Auxillary Seat CDN 5 passenger coupe. Well I was lucky. A gentleman named Jeff (automotive writer for AQ ,Collectible Automobile and Judge at Meadowbrook) comes up to me and says "DO you know what you got here?" and I replied YES but no one else here seems to know. He says that he has written articles about these cars but never seen one like this in real life. Now I am back in the show field and Jeff takes a seat with my car and I and spends the next two hours talking about all kinds of old cars, and Canadian and British cultural differences. I guess Jeff is a well known author because people are lining up to talk to him, and all he would talk about was my car.

So there I am on the show field (pavement) between two 1939 Plymouths and along come the "judges" who manage to completely miss that the car ia a 1941 Plymouth (rebadged as a Dodge) and go ahead and judge it as a 1939! Not once but three times I had to tell the judges it wasnt a 1939! Why would I believe anything that a judge had to say about a car... they didnt know about and were incapable of determining the year by sight? I know more about the car then ALL the judges put together BUT I learned keep your mouth shut and take it. WHY? should I do that? There wasnt ONE single 1941 Plymouth of ANY body style at the 80th POC meet. Not one 1941 Plymouth....unbelievable!.

Now in 1998 there were 225 vehicles at the National POC and in 2008 there less then 75! at this rate there will be a couple of dozen cars at the 90th anniversary in 2018! Is that really what the POC wants?

THE ANSWER IS.......

1-everything changes and so should the POC. If the original mandate is getting in the way....then change it. If the printed magazine is too costly E-publish it on the POC site and spend the savings on widening the base and making new membership a priority.

2-Own up to the inclusive nature of the club and make others more welcome.

3-If the POC has lost its relevance in 2010 there are enough members on the P15-D24 site to join the POC and change the rules themselves. Please take this seriously. The P15-D24 site and its popularity has grown as a direct relationship to the drop in POC activity especially on the net.

4-come to accept that the future of the POC is based on widening the appeal of the POC and building a younger membership base, who feel included and welcomed. How successful has the POC been at this compared to the membership that the P15-D24 site. The P15-D24 grew in the vacuum that the POC left. It was only a matter of time.

Lets keep the POC alive. Even after being disappointed at TWO national POC events I still pay for the POC membership and hope it changes before there is nothing left to change.

It is too easy to criticize, so I will offer my time if the thought of changing the POC becomes a reality. Thats the best I can do at this time. Hope the powers that be are listening.

roadkingcoupe

fat fendered crazy!

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Is it time to start a new PTC (Plymouth Tailgaters Club) club? Makes me wonder what is the point of attending a POC national meet that makes everyone (myself included) feel unwelcome. I am happy with no entry fee, no judging, no trophies, no bull $hit, but good food, and good fellowship.

Fact: Jim Benjaminson is

knowledgeable. helpful, offers expert advice, a great resource person and provides really nice replacement tires for stock vehicles.

Fact: Not everyone was welcome at the POC 80th anniversary outside of Detroit.

Jim, I have been carping about the rigidity of the POC for the last 12-15 years. I spoke directly to the POC president at the end of the banquet. He clearly understood the issues. Unfortunately Jim B was not in attendance (family issues I believe) so that is correct you were not aware of the issues.

The P15-D24 site has grown while the POC site has withered EXACTLY for these reasons.

In 1988 I dragged my pride and joy 1939 Plymouth Coupe down to Plymouth Michigan for the 70th anniversary of Plymouth. Packed up the 1939 and headed down to Plymouth MI like I was going to Mecca. People were going to join hands, dance and sing Plymouth hymns. Well that was NOT to be.

Although the 1939 is stock vintage car NOT modified it was not a 100 point car. At the time I did not even know what a 100 point car was. I loved my 1939 Plymouth and these "strangers" were picking it apart and dissing it. They were NOT open and inclusive.

So frustrated but NOT defeated I promised myself I would return with a vehicle that would truly SHOCK and AWE the POC! So just like 10 years earlier I packed up and headed down to the POC 80th anniversary of Plymouth National meet. This time I would call Jim B in advance and OK the vehicle I was bringing would be welcomed. Spoke to Jim on the phone and he encouraged me to come down and I would be welcome. Well that didnt happen.

Upon arrival I tried to register and they said "You cant bring a Dodge in here". I explained that the car was a Plymouth bodied "Plodge" and that Jim B. was aware of the vehicle and OKed it. The answer "Jim B. is not here and you have to display the vehicle in the parking lot with the trailers (away from the show field)"

So off I went to the trailer parking lot. Even though I had brought a STOCK original RARE 41000 orig mile Dodge D20 A/S Auxillary Seat CDN 5 passenger coupe. Well I was lucky. A gentleman named Jeff (automotive writer for AQ ,Collectible Automobile and Judge at Meadowbrook) comes up to me and says "DO you know what you got here?" and I replied YES but no one else here seems to know. He says that he has written articles about these cars but never seen one like this in real life. Now I am back in the show field and Jeff takes a seat with my car and I and spends the next two hours talking about all kinds of old cars, and Canadian and British cultural differences. I guess Jeff is a well known author because people are lining up to talk to him, and all he would talk about was my car.

So there I am on the show field (pavement) between two 1939 Plymouths and along come the "judges" who manage to completely miss that the car ia a 1941 Plymouth (rebadged as a Dodge) and go ahead and judge it as a 1939! Not once but three times I had to tell the judges it wasnt a 1939! Why would I believe anything that a judge had to say about a car... they didnt know about and were incapable of determining the year by sight? I know more about the car then ALL the judges put together BUT I learned keep your mouth shut and take it. WHY? should I do that? There wasnt ONE single 1941 Plymouth of ANY body style at the 80th POC meet. Not one 1941 Plymouth....unbelievable!.

Now in 1998 there were 225 vehicles at the National POC and in 2008 there less then 75! at this rate there will be a couple of dozen cars at the 90th anniversary in 2018! Is that really what the POC wants?

THE ANSWER IS.......

1-everything changes and so should the POC. If the original mandate is getting in the way....then change it. If the printed magazine is too costly E-publish it on the POC site and spend the savings on widening the base and making new membership a priority.

2-Own up to the inclusive nature of the club and make others more welcome.

3-If the POC has lost its relevance in 2010 there are enough members on the P15-D24 site to join the POC and change the rules themselves. Please take this seriously. The P15-D24 site and its popularity has grown as a direct relationship to the drop in POC activity especially on the net.

4-come to accept that the future of the POC is based on widening the appeal of the POC and building a younger membership base, who feel included and welcomed. How successful has the POC been at this compared to the membership that the P15-D24 site. The P15-D24 grew in the vacuum that the POC left. It was only a matter of time.

Lets keep the POC alive. Even after being disappointed at TWO national POC events I still pay for the POC membership and hope it changes before there is nothing left to change.

It is too easy to criticize, so I will offer my time if the thought of changing the POC becomes a reality. Thats the best I can do at this time. Hope the powers that be are listening.

roadkingcoupe

fat fendered crazy!

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We were ready to join the Golden State Region of the POC when they were just starting up. We had gone to a meeting at TonyC's house and met some really great people. Then the next week Mr. JimB (POC Membership Chairman) told Norn's Coupe and myself, on the old POC Website, "If it's not stock we don't want you". Norm's Coupe quit the POC and we never joined.

Dennis:cool:

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