OT-Tips for working with a non-cooperative dealership OT

[HalfdollarMayflower]

I've been having loads of fun dealing with the local Fhurd dealership about an intermittent non-start condition on my wife's 07 Fusion. On Sunday, June 28, my wife told me that the car would not start. I went out to the garage and tried my hand at it...the car cranked, strongly, but would not actually start.

I messed around with it two or three times that afternoon...and, although it would crank, it failed to start. Monday AM, I have the car towed 20 miles to the nearest Fhurd dealership...an hour after the tow truck leaves my driveway, I get a call from the "service tech" that there's no problem with the vehicle...it started for them and it's "okay." I asked that the vehicle be put on the diagnostic machine to see if the PCM had stored a code and was told that if they didn't do any warranty work it would cost me $90. Doesn't matter, I tell them, just get the car fixed.

Three days later I call the dealership to check on the car's progress...again I'm told "there's no problem with the car, come pick it up." I tried to explain to the service manager that a new-ish car that I couldn't depend on was no good to me...if they couldn't fix it, they could keep it for all I cared.

Two more days pass, and I get a call saying that the 'tech' is 90% sure that its a fuel pump issue. No worries, I'm told, it's covered under warranty.

We get the car back that afternoon, and don't have any other issues until July 25 (almost a month later). Same problem...cranking, but not starting. After fiddling with the car for almost an hour (with my family patiently waiting in the heat), the car mysteriously starts. I drive it back to the dealership and insist on a loner car while mine is being fixed. That was almost 3 WEEKS AGO.

Today I receive a call that the dealership needs the loaner car back. I ask if my car is fixed...again, I get the same answer..."starts fine for us!" When I press the guy I get all sorts of funny responses "well sir, I don't build them, I just try to fix them." "I'm not sure what to tell you." and my personal favorite; "The car isn't telling us anything is wrong."

After repeated attempts to ask what kind of diagnostic tests have been run, I'm told "We don't know where to start...these vehicles are complicated."

I called Fhurd Customer Care today to see if I could make any headway with them. The lady was nice, but really couldn't do much to help. She informs me that dealerships are independently owned and operated, so my best bet is to take it somewhere else.

What a wonderful out for Phurd Motor Company...they make a vehicle and sell you a warranty...but when the car breaks down, you gotta go thru the dealership...and guess what, their ability to help is purely at their discretion. When you go to the dealership, they tell you "we don't build them, just try to fix them." So basically you're screwed.

Anyone have any suggestions on where I go from here? I'm thinking it might be time to check the lemon laws.

Sorry for an OT thread...just needed to vent.

[greg g]

That is freakin priceless, "the car isn't telling us what's wrong with it" They are complicated.

Doesn't anybody have a simple trouble shooting flow chart.

OLD STYLE

Car cranks= good battery and starter

no start= no compression, no spark (or spark at the worn time) or no fuel

check same and repair as necessary

NEW STYLE

plug in reader, no fault codes= car fixed

Fault codes stored, replace parts in system, call car fixed.

pathetic.

[dezeldoc]

Let me check with my son tonight, he is a ford master tech at a ford dealer in town and get ya the real skinny on whats going on.

[HalfdollarMayflower]

Let me check with my son tonight, he is a ford master tech at a ford dealer in town and get ya the real skinny on whats going on.

Thanks! I know there was a TSB issued for something to do with the PATS. I asked the dealership to check on this. In addition, another TSB mentioned something about reflashing the PCM...again, I asked if this was done.

Its been a good car, but I just can't trust it to haul my wife & kids around when its doing this.

Greg, I thought that was pretty humorous too! I told the service manager that if it cranks but doesn't start then that probably means either spark or fuel needs to be checked out. I asked him what diagnostic checks have been done to the fuel pump, pump inertia switch, fuel pressure regulator, anti-theft system, coil packs, etc. and that's when he told me "these cars are complicated." I would have laughed if I wasn't so frustrated.

[PatS....]

A buddy of mine had a similar problem with a Chebby Cavalier and it was the radio!

The anti-theft system includes the radio and the plug for the power to the radio was loose.

If you have your radio stolen in a GM vehicle, you are SOL for starting it.

[P-12 Tommy]

I agree!!

Tom

[HalfdollarMayflower]

I had to chuckle to myself when I read this one. Not at anyone' date=' but the subject matter itself. I've been in this position before myself. Most of the time, I'd say not to blame the dealer or mechanic, they can't help it when this happens.

If the problem is not computer controlled, it will not store a code for them to look up. If the car starts fine when it's in the shop, you have to ask. How can they fix it if everything is working? Whatever that bad part may be, it's working fine then. So.........even if they run their test on it, it will show nothing is wrong with it. It's sad to say, but.........I doubt you will ever get that problem cleared up, until it fails while at the dealer.[/quote']

Duly noted. That doesn't make it any less frustrating though. The big problem is that there are no longer any true diagnosticians. OBDII systems put a lot of the good old shade tree guys into early retirement, and the dealership guys are only trained to 'plug & play'.

I find it hard to swallow that the dealer who sold the car & the extended warranty refuses to even attempt the most basic diagnostic/electrical tests...heck, I can't even get them to give me a straight answer on the known issues associated with the car (TSB's).

Kinda sad that my most dependable vehicle was made almost 30 years before I was born.

[JerseyHarold]

Ask to fill out a Customer Review Request (that's what they used to call them when I was a Ford service writer way back when) and have the zone rep take a look at it.

[GeorgeLeonard]

I had the same thing happen to me. Right down to the loaner car that they called for after a few weeks of driving. Ironically, mine was a Ford as well. Mine didnt get fixed until the district service manager offered to use it as his personal car until the symptom showed up again while he was using it. By this time, I was at my wit's end so I agreed to the idea because they obviously didnt believe me. It took about a month but the car finally failed to start while he was using it. They fixed it and never told me what the problem was (probably something little and insignificant-maybe they were embarrassed?) Anyhow, the car went on to become one of the best vehicles I had ever owned up to that point. I drove it for well over 200,00 miles without touching another thing. I traded it in on another Ford, got a good deal, and had even better luck with it. See if you can get the service manager to drive it long term or try a different dealership.

[billwillard]

Read up on your anti theft system. The next time it won't start you will know how to srart it.

[Dennis Hemingway]

A buddy of mine had the same problem with his Dodge P/U, it was a short in the alarm system, The dealer didn't set the alarm when they parked it in the service bay, so the problem didn't show up until the dealer drove the truck home and then had to call the tow truck to pick him up.

Dennis:eek:

[dezeldoc]

OK, the kid said the first thing they should have done is put the scanner on it to check for codes, hard or soft may have been set. also said it is hard to duplicate intermittent problems but they should have spent some time on it not try it a few times then kick it out the door. he also said to check the battery termanls and battery as i guess they are not to good, said all in all they are pretty good trouble free cars. he also said if their is a different dealer in town take it to them and have it checked, to put it on the scanner is covered under warranty, he is going to check on the tsb's tomorrow. also he mentioned something about different areas of the states their are different known issues, such as wet roads, snow and such.

[Joe Flanagan]

I second Norm's idea about Googling 2007 Fusion complaints on the internet. I had to do something similar for my Chevy Blazer and my daughter's Nissan and found so much useful stuff I was amazed. And it was a huge help. I was able to repair everything myself because of what I discovered online. I'm curious about why they kept your car for three weeks when nothing was wrong with it.

[BobT-47P15]

On my 2006 Dodge Caravan, and the wife's 2001 PT Cruiser, you can turn the ignition

key on and off three times in a row.......don't start the car. After the third time, look

at where the digital odometer reading is, and a trouble code will appear.

Then, you can talk to your friendly mechanic or auto supply, who can look up what

that code indicates. I've done that a couple times lately when the "check engine"

light has come on. That code may or may not turn out to be the definitive answer.

The van said "e g r valve" - seemed to be correct. Dealer replaced it under warranty.

On her car, the last one said "exhaust restriction" - so we had the catalytic converter

replaced. Will see if that holds.....the light has not yet come back on.

It tells in the owners manual about the key turning process.

[HalfdollarMayflower]

thanks for all the help guys!

[greg g]

Supposed to illuminate to remind you to change your oil. Gives the dealership the opportunity to sell you other unneeded stuff. Seems the guys behind the service counter get a % of the sales they write up on a repair order. Not what you need but what they need to sell. Thats why all the "it's normal"or "they all do that" stuff gets put off till the warrenty is up, cuz then they get full price for the parts and labor instead of the 70% reimbursement they get for warrenty work.

Hey Norm, I thought I was the only one who use electrical tape inside the dash......

[Don Coatney]

This is the best but it is not the only car forum on the internet. When I had problems with my 97 furd F150 I went to there forum and ask the question. Within a few minutes I had an answer and it was the right answer for me to fix my problem for less than five bucks (dealers had charged eight hundred bucks or more to unsuccessfully not fix the same problem). Same thing with my wifes car. Same thing with my neighbors kids car. The wisdom on this forum is great but check out what problems others with similar cars have had on there car forum. Then come back here when you have resolved this issue.

[Oldguy48]

Had a 77 Fiat (yeah, I know:eek:) years ago that had a red "trouble" light wired into the brake system. Supposed to let you know of a problem with the brakes. Light came on, took it to the dealer. Light was off when I got it back, only to find out much later that they just disconnected it.

[greg g]

So Don what was the problem with your Fords??? I just got a used exploder OHC V4 94k

35 miles after putting gas in it the CEL came on showing an EVAP system code. I know from prior experience it usualy relates to a loose gas cap, So I released it and made sure it was tight. I don't have the exact code, but I will get it from the bubble pack store.

Doesn't seem to run bad or suck gas seems to be 18, 19 just running around. But I gotta get it sorted before going for an inspection. With OBD II vehicle here auto failure with CEL illuminated. Or recently reset.

Edited August 13, 2009 by greg g

[Don Coatney]

My truck problem was my interior lights would not shut off as they should when I first start driving. Others had gone to dealers and had the wiring harness replacded (at the dealers recommendation) for big bucks and this did not fix the problem. The problem was fixed by dousing the door switches with WD-40. This fixed my problem and it has not re-occured in several years.

[dezeldoc]

Till the smog tech turns the key to the on position to check the lights, i did the same thing and the guy caught it!

[BobT-47P15]

Bob' date='

Do they still have the light in the upper right corner of the dash that says something like "Maintenance Required"? That one is really a joke. That light came on in my 90 Caravan when I had it, the day before I was to go on vacation in the van. Took it to the dealer right away and explained I needed it checked out before driving roughly 2,000 miles. The service manager told me not to worry about it, it was just a light to get people to bring their cars in for a checkup. Said all they did when the light came on was to reset the computer for $40 and give the car back to you.

Norm, I haven't seen that light. May not have one......I hope.

[48mirage]

My story involves an 87 dodge Dakota. It had a service required light that came on at 70k. It turns out that the reset button was hid under a panel on the dash.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the early model mopars had reset buttons on the dash...quite a bit less problematic compared to the early maintenance reminders where the decay cap module had to be replaced to clear the light (FORD better idea at work)

then they got wise to the fact that people could reset the light without bee lining for service so upgraded to OBD tool to reset the light..cost of those in the early days were quite expensive and thus not readily available or cost effective for the average owner to have on hand. A maintenance light when lit simply says a code was loaded that is of concern..this is generally stored as ae all codes for approximately 50 engine starts and if no second incident occurs to set that code, it is cleared and the light will go out on its own...it is the flashing check engine light that alerts you of a major condition that affects the engine and emissions systems. Do not ignore this condition.

The OBD is very good and in the cases where you may have a failure and get multiple codes, always consider the lowers numeric code value for first clear as it may have down stream effect and was the condition for the other codes to load..I saw one condition where 6 codes were loaded every time....drove the dealership carzy (my car) I took a day off work, took the car in, service manager had a room reserved, all the schematics, serviceabilty bood and coffee waiting for me...about 2 hours later I emerged and reported that the one precision voltage regulator in the kick panel body module is overheating thus setting the code for the six circuits it fed..manager told the mechanic to pop in that module for free...case solved..(free...car is warranted for 50,000 miles regardless if owned by 20 people withing the 5 years, part of emissions and clean air act..don't be afraid to quote this on any check engine light condition)

[dezeldoc]

Nope nothing wrong just the tech did his job and checked to make sure the lights were working and not taped over, mine was the service light not the check engine light. if any are lit it is an instant fail, even that worthless light.