p24-1953 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I have asked here before but never really got a answer. I have a hydrive transmission and really would like overdrive. The car just dose not handle the interstate well and the back roads take so long. The wife and I would like to take the car on longer trips but the distance limits it. So what are my options? 1.) remove the hydrive and instal a standard 3 speed w/ overdrive? (is this easly done? price?) 2.)Buy a universal Gear vendors units and cut up my driveshats and make a bracket? Does anyone have one installed? ($2-3,000) 3.) Buy a rebuilt 350 ( i have know where a good 396 is), and transmision with overdrive? (price ?) so what should i do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 The hydrive uses a different frame member then the standard 3spd. So you'd have quite the project to install a standard 3spd. And the OD versions can be hard to find and expensive. Cant really comment on the other two. What about swapping in a differently geared center section in the rear end. Do you know what the factory ratio is with your hydrive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 its a 3.54 i think. do you know what the difference in the frames are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I would think its just the crossmember for the bellhousing. If you do go to an OD thats too high a ratio. You'd be better off installing a plain 3spd with the 3.54. That should get you going nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 arnt the gears for a hydrive and a standard 3 speed similar both ending in a 1:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 the three speed will do nothig to change rpms at highway speed, as both transmissions have a 1 to 1 ratio in top gear. Using a calculator with your posted gear ratios, assuming a 28.5 inch diameter tire, you engine is running just over 2700 rpms at 65 even running 70 is still under 3000 rpm. What is the problem of running the highways??? A taller tire would help a bit, but it seems your gears are much more relaxed than my 3 speed with a 4:11 rear end. I have driven my car on several trips of 300 plus miles using roads of my choice, with no problems. Using the same calculators my engine is running 3200 rpm at 62. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Here you go. http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hydrive.html I would think unless you are loosing a lot of engine power to the inefficient fluid coupling that your car should be good to go with that 3.54. My 48 has a standard 3spd with a 3.73 rear end and I go on the freeway all the time. Granted I'm not passing anyone but I go along fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 the three speed will do nothig to change rpms at highway speed, as both transmissions have a 1 to 1 ratio in top gear. quote]Wouldn't his engine be running somewhat harder to make up for lost power to the fluid coupling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I am assuming that fluid transfer efficiency at highway speed is very slight, and probably no more than frictional losses through the regular transmission. A 10 % loss would only be 30 rpms or so at any rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I didn't figure it would be much. Perhaps verifying the diff ratio should be the next step. I would think a 3.54 would cruise nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 it will run on the free way, but i feel like i have to push it. it will do 70, but it is reving really high. there is no way to keep up with the traffic 80+. i currently run 10 -15 miles one way on the free way, but i feel that 200-300 might be pushing it. what is the redline on our engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 the peak hp ratig is at 3600 rpm. Runing at 75 to 85 percent of that assuming a well maintained engine should not be a problem. Thats 3100 rpm. Redline or top max revs, who knows. There are other factors I would think would be of more concern at 80. like tires and brakes for two. I guess if I though I had to drive at 80, I'd be using a better suited vehicle. I know driving 6o to 65 while eveyone else is cranking along 10 or 15 mph faster is certainly uncomfortable but so is cranking a 60 year old car at 80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 rebuilt brakes, and new tires. front end has been reworked. so i feel comfertable at higher speed but im concerend about the high rpms, but it sounds like they are not that high. i might just need a tach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Here you go. http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hydrive.htmlI would think unless you are loosing a lot of engine power to the inefficient fluid coupling that your car should be good to go with that 3.54. My 48 has a standard 3spd with a 3.73 rear end and I go on the freeway all the time. Granted I'm not passing anyone but I go along fast enough. Ed, whats it sound like doing 65 mph on the 694 or I 94. Hey 2 guys from work drove down to Minneapolis on Friday night, left Winnipeg at 3:00 in the morning, cars in the ditch everywhere along 1 29, but there Crazed Football fans. I have essentially the same set-up as you in my 47 Chrsyler Coupe, flattie, 3spd standard, dry clutch and a 3.73 rear end, my tires are P205 75 15s. But you know Ed, I feel uncomfortable going over 55 mph, as my engine has miles and the rpms are getting up there over 55 mph, mind you my car is around 3400 lbs, your Plymouth is around 3000lbs, that might make a difference too.............Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Did they come all this way to watch the Vikings choke as usual? Pretty funny they struggled to sell out a play off game. I go 60 usually with the occasional run at 65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 My (fresh and beefy) flathead Desoto (255CI) engine pulls the overdrive well with a 3.55/1 differential and 28" tires. I can run 70 MPH all day long with the engine spinning at about 2200 RPM's. Pulls all but the higest of hills without down shifting. I do not know enough about the hydrive to comment on it so not sure how it equates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 its a 3.54 i think. .... The differential will be stamped with the ratio , before making any plans why don't you clean it off and find out for sure ? If you really do have a 3.54 you should be good to go . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 If I were doing what you are doing- automatic to manual I would go slowly 1- is your Hy drive one of those 10 quart engine and trans deals?? if so better check about how to stop oil from passing to the trans and be able to block it off. 2 are the flywheels of the hydrive and standard shift the same? 3 do you now have a clutch pedal?? will it work on a dry clutch. 4 overdrive - will drive shaft from a hydrive need altering? there is an awful lot of work to make that conversion If you are going to do it why not convert to a 5 speed S10 - floor shift- no need to have Donner car etc. If you are determined to do it then I have a 53 with probably everything you need except the transmission- and adapter. My 53 station wagon has everything but the trans. and I have an overdrive trans I will sell but do not know how good it is - George asche is the man for overdrive I have 2 from him. Again this is a major undertaking be sure your willing to spend a lot of time under car not in car driving. I have done a lot of work on cars and I would not under take it unless I had a Donner car and a lot of time and a huge amount of patience . Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Yergin Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 If you plan on changing to the standard three speed, you should check the pilot bushing in your engine. It may not have one and the opening for the bushing in the end of the crank may need to be machined to open it up to receive a pilot bushing. I found that to be the case with the Dodge fluid drive crankshaft I used to build my 230. I ended up reducing the outside diameter of the pilot bushing to get it to fit. Jim Yergin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I re read some of your old posts. If your 54 uses a standard trans coupled to engine by the converter method then it would seem that all you need is an overdrive trans with a longer input shaft- cal George Asche 814 354 2621 If anyone has done it he has. I know he has made overdrives for the dodges with fluid drive trans. If you can get a trans to fit me and Tim can help you get it in- like the way I volunteered you Tim? Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 If I were doing what you are doing- automatic to manual I would go slowly1- is your Hy drive one of those 10 quart engine and trans deals?? if so better check about how to stop oil from passing to the trans and be able to block it off. Yep thats what i got, i didnt know about having to cap it off 2 are the flywheels of the hydrive and standard shift the same? 3 do you now have a clutch pedal?? will it work on a dry clutch.Yep i have a clutch but i dont know if it will work on a standard transmision 4 overdrive - will drive shaft from a hydrive need altering?yep either way with the gear vendor it would need to be cut and rebalanced or with the standard transmision i would need a new longer driveshaft to match the transmission there is an awful lot of work to make that conversion If you are going to do it why not convert to a 5 speed S10 - floor shift- no need to have Donner car etc.Wouldnt i still have the same oil issue fromthe block to the transmission If you are determined to do it then I have a 53 with probably everything you need except the transmission- and adapter. My 53 station wagon has everything but the trans. and I have an overdrive trans I will sell but do not know how good it is - George asche is the man for overdrive I have 2 from him. Again this is a major undertaking be sure your willing to spend a lot of time under car not in car driving. I have done a lot of work on cars and I would not under take it unless I had a Donner car and a lot of time and a huge amount of patience . Lou Reading allthose questions it looks to me like the gear vendors unit or the engine transmisson swap is the route i will need to go. how hard is it to put a small block with a 700r4 in one of our cars? i know the thought is sacreligious, but im just thinking not commiting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 If you are thinkig of the gear vendors, check out od from early 90's volvos. they are an add on electicly controlled Laycock de Normanville unit based on the borg Warner planetary Od very similar to the original units used by MOPAR. They are a .73 overdrive unit, and should be fairly inexpensive and avaialbable from used parts yards. You would need to build some support hardwar and adapt the drive shaft but you should be able to do it for a lot less then the gearvendors deal which is basically the same design planetary gear deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwcars88 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Will the Volvo OD mount to the 3-speed trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p24-1953 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 If you are thinkig of the gear vendors, check out od from early 90's volvos.they are an add on electicly controlled Laycock de Normanville unit based on the borg Warner planetary Od very similar to the original units used by MOPAR. They are a .73 overdrive unit, and should be fairly inexpensive and avaialbable from used parts yards. You would need to build some support hardwar and adapt the drive shaft but you should be able to do it for a lot less then the gearvendors deal which is basically the same design planetary gear deal. do you know if i would need a d or j type? are they internally oiled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 J volvo jag etc. can't answer the lubrication question never messed with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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