1949windsor Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I am new to 6v and inline 6's so bear with me. First when I bought the car, which had been sitting for 27 years, I wanted to make sure it would at least turn over and run. 1. Removed the old spark plugs and sprayed some deep creep in to lube everything up a little and let it sit a few hours. 2. Changed the plugs-gap .35 3. Changed the points-gap .2 4. Changed the cap, rotor and spark plug wires. 5. Fuel tank and carb-don't go there just sprayed quick start in the top of carb and...... STARTED RIGHT UP! Obviously it only ran a few seconds but at least everything seemed to be working. I wanted to clean everything off and repaint so 3 Months later: Took everything apart to clean and paint. 1. Set the points to .2 gap while the distributor was out. ADVICE RECIEVED HERE 2. Set the engine at TDC by turning engine until cylinder 1 had presure and the put a piece of coat hanger down the hole in cylinder 6 was at TDC. ADVICE RECIEVED HERE 3. The rotor was pointing to 7:00 so everything seemed to be going well. ADICE RECIEVED HERE 4. Checked all the plugs to make sure they were .35 gap and reinstalled. 5. Installed plug wires in the correct order. 6. Completely disassembled the carb and cleaned all the laquer out and reinstalled. 7. Hooked it up to a portable gas can and pumped until the carb was full. 8. Sprayed a little quick start into the top and... NOTHING! Checked all the wires and I forgot to plug the wire in the coil (I was going to leave this part out but hey I'm an honest guy) Ok no one here sugested to not connect the coil:p A little more quick start and... NOTHING! 1. Pulled the cylinder 1 plug and cranked over-SPARK, 2-SPARK, 3-SPARK etc. 2. Scratched my head and tryed again NOTHING, no wait a little pop, then NOTHING. Six hours later, checking everything I can think of and the same results. I have tryed turning the distributor, spraying in lots of fuel, very little fuel, rechecking the points, firing order, SWEARING at it and..... NOTHING! So now I turn to you. What am I missing? If I have fuel (at least the quick start) and I have spark, why no fire? When I pulled the plugs, they were not wet so I don't think it was flooded. There was some carbon on them so I know something is burning, just not sure why it is not running. Any and all advise at this point will be greatly appreciated. Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeLeonard Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Something similar to this just happened to me. Turned out that the two nuts holding the carburetor onto the intake manifold had worked themselves loose after a full summer of happy motoring. A couple of quick turns with a 9/16" wrench and all was well again. Im pretty sure that I read this on the forum a little while back. Anyway....its cheap and easy to do. George Leonard:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrism1 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 1949windsor.. Did you make sure to wire the coil correctly? Negative to dizzy, NOT positive!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmopar Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 spark gap would be 35 for a resistor plug non resistor .25 -.26 are the idle screw adjusted correctly ? 1 1/2 - 2 turns out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Bullock Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 when you say nothing, is it turning over? and just not starting? what about the oil, did you change it? do you have compression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Sounds so familiar.... I had very similar symptoms. If I did manage to get it to run, it was very rough; that's if I could start it at all. I checked the compression and found next to nil on cyl 2 and 3. At first I was thinking stuck valve or two but I pulled the head and it turned out to be a blown head gasket. The lesson I learned (advice received here): check compression on all six. if two adjacent cylinders are abnormally low compared to all six it's probably the head gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949windsor Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Something similar to this just happened to me. Turned out that the two nuts holding the carburetor onto the intake manifold had worked themselves loose after a full summer of happy motoring. A couple of quick turns with a 9/16" wrench and all was well again. Im pretty sure that I read this on the forum a little while back. Anyway....its cheap and easy to do. George Leonard:) Checked all is tight 1949windsor.. Did you make sure to wire the coil correctly? Positive to dizzy!! Positive is connected to dizzy spark gap would be 35 for a resistor plug non resistor .25 -.26 are the idle screw adjusted correctly ? 1 1/2 - 2 turns out Resistor plugs set at .35 did not adjust the idle yet cause I can not even get it to fire. I planned on doing all the carb adjustments after I got the timing dialed in. when you say nothing, is it turning over? and just not starting? what about the oil, did you change it? do you have compression? It is turning over, I did not changed the oil yet but there is plenty of compression. I could not hold my finger down on any of the spark plug holes when cranking. Sounds so familiar.... I had very similar symptoms. If I did manage to get it to run, it was very rough; that's if I could start it at all. I checked the compression and found next to nil on cyl 2 and 3. At first I was thinking stuck valve or two but I pulled the head and it turned out to be a blown head gasket. The lesson I learned (advice received here): check compression on all six. if two adjacent cylinders are abnormally low compared to all six it's probably the head gasket. Compression seems fine. Still no fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Try opening the throttle a little bit. If the idle circuit isn't set right it may not be getting enough, or any, gas through the idle circuit. By opening the throttle slightly you begin to pull off the main jet. I've had to do that sometimes with a "fresh" carb. Once running you can fine tune the idle circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I'd say take a really good look at the areas you worked on between the starts and the doesn't start part:) Not questioning your mechanical talents, but there's gotta be something that changed. Try putting back the cap and rotor you took out. Did you install the plug wires for a clockwise distrib rotation, not counter clockwise? Do you recall if the distributor came out with the rotor in the same position as when you reinstalled? Could have been 180 out before from a previous owner, with the plug wires correspondingly switched around. Take a really good look at the points installation. again. If you replaced the condenser, try using the old one. Look closely at the wire inside the distrib that connects to the points. Any chance it is shorting to the distrib housing? Let us know what it turns out to be. Might just need to be cussed at some more. 1. Removed the old spark plugs and sprayed some deep creep in to lube everything up a little and let it sit a few hours. 2. Changed the plugs-gap .35 3. Changed the points-gap .2 4. Changed the cap, rotor and spark plug wires. 5. Fuel tank and carb-don't go there just sprayed quick start in the top of carb and...... STARTED RIGHT UP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I don't think anyone has mentioned an obvious possibility. Are all the wires firmly pressed into the distributor cap? Should hear a slight snapping noise when they are all the way into the cap. Also check your rotor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodie49 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think you need a systematic way to start narrowing down what is going on. First thing I would do is determine whether I had spark at the plugs. Pull a wire a short distance from the plug, make sure you are insulated, and have someone crank the starter. You should be able to see at fairly bright spark. If no spark, work bach through what you did until you find the problem. Points, coil, etc. Make sure that in your efforts you didn't ground something that shouldn't be grounded. If you have spark, then check your plugs, timing and firing sequence. Then start on the fuel supply side of the equation. If you are using quick start and you have spark, something should be firing. My 49 has always been fairly tempermental about the choke. If it isn't in the right position, i can crank all day and not get any attempt at firing. Make sure yours is operating. If it is automatic, make sure that the screw attaching the wire to the choke from the starter is no too long, or it will ground you out. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Bullock Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ok, if it is turning over you are half way there, as mentioned before there are three things to look for, spark, fuel, compression. if you changed the cap and rotor make sure they are the exact same type you pulled off. Pull one of your plugs and take a reading...is it sooted, wet or dry and new. Look down the cab mouth and give it gas, do you see a stream of gas come out? Your problem more than not is in your spark I bet your coil quit on you. Turn your switch on and take your dist. cap off take a plastic stick and separate the points arm if you don't see a spark you need to looki at the connection and the coil. The coil is one of the weak link parts in a 6 volt system especially when you buy so called nos coils get you a new one from the auto store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Brandon; Try this. Install new spark plugs. A little carbon tracing on the electrode can cause a plug to not fire. Next clean all of your battery cable connections. A loose/dirty connection will rob power from the ignition system when the starter motor is running and cause a weak spark. I suspect your timing is slightly "off". Make sure your carburetor float bowl is full of gas and that you get a healthy squirt of raw gas down the throat of your carburetor when you fully open the throttle. Open the throttle a couple of times to insure you have ample fuel available. Loosen the bolt that secures your distributor to the block and turn it clockwise as far as it will go. Hold it in that position as you are attempting to start the engine with the throttle at half position or so. This will require two people. If it does not start then turn the distributor counterclockwise while you are still spinning the engine with the starter. By doing this you should find the correct timing and your engine should start. I am assuming that your plug wires are installed correctly and all other electrical connections are flush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIPJOBXX Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 When you ground out your points check to see if you have any spark comming from your coil wire. Your spard should be nice and blue in color. Just hold the coil wire with a non-conductive material (Rubber gloves) and hold coil wire about a 1/4 inch away from ground (Engine). You should get a nice blue spark if this happens. If not than I would run a hot lead wire to your coil from your battery and see if it sparks. If not I would replace the coil-cost next to nothing or around 15 to 20 dollars at a good parts store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949windsor Posted October 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I checked all the spark plug wires and they are all seated in the dist cap ok. I pulled th coil wire out of the center of the cap and set it next to the cap. Turned over the engine and was abe to get about a half inch spark with all cylinders. When I removed the dist the rotor was pointing at about 7:00 so I was glad to see it went back in where it was supposed to. How far off can my timing be off just to get some fire in there? I know there is probably issues with the carb still, but shouldn't the quick start overcome any of that? Mabey that is where my problem is..Choke ect. thanks again for all the input...checking everything that is suggested Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Double check your spark plug wires for firing order and assure they are in the correct tower of the cap. I had mine one off after shanging plug wires and dist cap. firing order was correct but was off by one tower. no start just apop once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Frank Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 For an engine not to start the timing would have to be WAYYYY off would it not? Windsor, if you are concerned about the timing, there are a number of threads that discuss setting static timing which would certainly get you up and running if that is the problem. I generally suspect the obvious in a situation like this (at least I usually mess up the simple stuff...) and one flub that I have done a few times is reverse the firing order on the cap when I replaced the wires ~ got it backward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrism1 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Just thought about the heat riser, is it stuck closed and blocking exhaust. I would think if it was you would hear the back pressure from the carb though! Just thinking out loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949windsor Posted October 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Just thought about the heat riser, is it stuck closed and blocking exhaust. I would think if it was you would hear the back pressure from the carb though! Just thinking out loud! That one I did not check! WE will see in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randroid Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 1949windsor, I have nothing to add that hasn't already been stated "ad infinitum ad nauseum", but I did graduate from Orange High School in 1964; the year Villa Park High was built and you could still camp in Trabuco Canyon and hike to Angel's Falls. My Dad showed me how to climb the wet rocks next to it without slipping. That was the year in which I owned one of the two '37 Oldsmobile's registered in Orange County, and the other owner and I have since become life-long friends, although the last time I saw him he was more into a '55 Panhead than old cars. Best to you, -Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Earle Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 remove your distributor and re install it so rotor button is 180 degrees from whereever it is when u pull it- sure sounds like you are firing on wrong stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Bullock Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I am glad that you have spark, that is a big thing with these cars. The firing order must be right. You will get nothing and nowhere without it. Did you take a pic of your motor? can you go back and look at that pic to see if you maybe are "one off" When I was building my 40 Ply I had the same problem you are having this is the beginning of your history with the car and any believe so much in what they are doing that they do or will no question what they have done. Take nothing for granted:) sometimes you could be looking at something and think you are seeing it when it is not what it seems. You have nothing but time so go back and redo your spark plug wires one at a time. If you know someone with a L head six take a pic of there motor and start from scartch. I had my wires wrong and my dist. was in 180 out and I was ready to give up. The folks hear gave me some encouraging words and some great advice. My daugter and I started the car and have been happy ever since, I was rebuilding a carb once and It kept failing, I did it over and over again the same results everytime. I finally got up and walked away. I changed my view of it and found that I was putting the needle in backwards, I revesed it and the car started fine and ran. you can do this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 The heat riser does not block the exhust flow, it redirects it to another exit path, any additional back pressure it might add would be marginal and would not effect the way the engine runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 What do you mean by "quick start"????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 What do you mean by "quick start"????? Greg; I think he means guick fall asleep AKA either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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