Allan Faust Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Hi all... Since I still am a "newbie" at all of this (first time I've seen a lot of things), I never know what to expect and I don't know what is normal or not. I was told in the past that the brakes had been "redone", however, wasn't told when, where, how, or told what was done on them..... My main worry was the good ol hub puller (which I don't have), so I just loosened up the rear "adjustments" pulled the cap, removed the castle nut and cotter pin, and pulled a bit, and the hub pulled right off.... Now, with the pictures shown, does it look "decent" or not? The linings look thick, and on the center shaft, bearings etc... it looks like it was greased real well, and the grease even seems fresh...... what do you think? Need opinions.... Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 The puller is only needed on the rears. Looks like your grease seal was leaking a bit. Also, while your at this point I'd knock out the anchor pins and antiseize them up to make for easier adjustments later. This also gives you a chance to reoil the felt washers. The shoes look OK, you may be able to reuse them if you clean them up good. Did the brakes work OK before disassembly? Otherwise you may consider new cylinders at this time as well. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Merle.... you see, I don't know if they were working or not.... one of the previous owners drove the car, but the "next" owner was taking the car apart, and had it sitting for 4-5 years... so I don't really know. As for the grease seal... what is it...?? I know when I got it apart, I got grease everywhere, so it might be my fault.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 And as for the anchor pins... where are they while you are at it.... Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 The anchor pins are those deals at the opposite ends of the shoe from the wheel cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Remember my post about using old brake shoes that you don't know how old they are. Mine looked good to.........but they fell apart one day in traffic and locked up the back wheel. I would have the shoes relined myself to be safe.That said' date=' they probably did do something to the brakes before you bought the car. Otherwise you would not be able to pull that wheel by hand without a puller.[/quote'] Looks like a front spindle to me so a puller would not be needed. The inside looks a bit dirty to me to have been recently rebuilt. But it does look like the linings and drums are not scored and there is a fair amount of lining left. Look under the dust boots on the wheel cylinders and see if there is any evidence of leaking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Looks like a front spindle to me so a puller would not be needed.The inside looks a bit dirty to me to have been recently rebuilt. But it does look like the linings and drums are not scored and there is a fair amount of lining left. Look under the dust boots on the wheel cylinders and see if there is any evidence of leaking... What is the difference between the front and back that would make it "needed"? I'll be checking everything anyways to make sure, I just want to try and see what may be "normal" or not..... like the grease seal leak that was mentioned earlier. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 The rears are retained by mounting the hub on the axle taper. It works like the tapered fit on tie rods and ball joints, then they get all friendly with moisture and heat and neglect. the fronts are retained byt he castle nut but rid on the bearings, In the rear the hub rides on the axle and the axle runs on the bearings. Some one mentioned that when they took their rears apart the drilled out the rivets what retain the drum to the hub, that way in the future, the drum is affixed to tehhub by the lug bolts much like more modern systems. then you can just pull the wheel and remove the drum and leave the hub on if you are servicing the brakes. If you need to service bearing or seals, then you can pull the axle with the hub attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Aha, I get it... (not that slow after all....) Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allan, if you were mainly looking to do an inspection/maintenance and if you're not real comfortable with re-adjusting the major adjustment, you might hold off on a lot of disassembly. Removing the anchor pins will change your major brake adjustment. Myself, being shade tree, I would pop loose the wheel cylinder boots and hopefully not get a splash of fluid out of any of them. If they are dry in that area, I'd pop the boots back on. I would clean up the shoes and inside of the drum with a can or three of brake cleaner spray and rags. I'd definitely replace both front grease seals, probably would not mess with repacking the bearings if they are kept uncontaminated in the process. Then put the drum and wheel on, adjust the front bearings, do a quick simple minor brake adjustment, and go. Just my 2 cents. If you haven't done front grease seals before, there are a couple tips to make it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randroid Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allen, A quick aside about the brake drums: Yours seem to look good, although I don't know what that pile of gray stuff against the side of the photo is, but should you ever need to get them turned no shop will be able to find the specs on how far they can be cut because there are no specs. After WWII WPC saw a lot of GIs trying to earn a living with what they'd learned in the Army but who couldn't afford the expensive calipers, etc., and circumvented this problem for them by cutting a groove in the inner lip of the drum. Don't cut past this groove and you'll be fine. I can see that groove in the photo so I can only imagine your drums are quite new, but as the years go by at least now you know how wide you can go. -Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allan, if you were mainly looking to do an inspection/maintenance and if you're not real comfortable with re-adjusting the major adjustment, you might hold off on a lot of disassembly. Removing the anchor pins will change your major brake adjustment. Myself, being shade tree, I would pop loose the wheel cylinder boots and hopefully not get a splash of fluid out of any of them. If they are dry in that area, I'd pop the boots back on. I would clean up the shoes and inside of the drum with a can or three of brake cleaner spray and rags. I'd definitely replace both front grease seals, probably would not mess with repacking the bearings if they are kept uncontaminated in the process. Then put the drum and wheel on, adjust the front bearings, do a quick simple minor brake adjustment, and go. Just my 2 cents. If you haven't done front grease seals before, there are a couple tips to make it easy. I've got to clean, blast, and paint the entire outside of the drum (and control arms etc) and I want to make sure that everything is done right I'm definitely going to have to go shade tree, since I definitely don't have any ammco tools, etc for adjustments and with the blasting, I may and will have to replace things (seals on the control arms anyways) as for the grease seals, I'd appreciate all the info I can get. BTW, have a great last day at work Norm... right now, I just want a great first day Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Randy, That grey stuff on the side is probably grease that dislodged while shoving the drum back and forth getting the thing off the spindle.... that's what I figure anyways..... I mainly wanted to clean things up and see if things were worn and see if things needed replacement, but I will go as far as I have to to make sure that everything is ok, which would include replacing just about everything.... which would mean a bigger learning curve, but that knowledge is money in the bank for the future, and the car definitely isn't going anywhere for a few years still..... rather get things done right and take longer than do a half-a$$ job and have to go back in at a later date.... Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allan, maybe you should take Charlie up on the disc kit. It's about the same price as going through the originals and, IMHO, less trouble when they're installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allan, maybe you should take Charlie up on the disc kit. It's about the same price as going through the originals and, IMHO, less trouble when they're installed. I didn't think of it that way.... I've already got his shock relocation kit (waiting to make sure that the entire setup is installed with weight on the frame before doing it).... and I know that it is an eventuality...... definitely something to think about, but the thing I was worried about with the disc kit is any drilling and modifying that I'd have to do, because as I mentioned, I'm still a newbie at all of this.... I'd want to do the least modifying myself (especially when it comes to "security" apparatus like brakes....) Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Belvedere Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I would invest in a manual if I were you, and thoroughly read and go thru it and familiarize yourself plus read the many good previous posts on brakes on this site that pertain to brakes, lots of good tips you won't find even in the manual. The home page of this site has a good brake adjustment proceedure all laid out for you under Tech Tips heading I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Belvedere Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 The lying dirt bag I bought my car from told me that it was normal on these cars to occaisionally have to pump the brakes to bring the pedal up, and being the ignorant newbie that I was, and never having driven a car of this vintage I believed him. Turns out every wheel cylinder on my car was leaking and all the brake linnings were saturated in brake fluid it is a wonder he would even risk driving the car on a test drive in that condition! Moral of the story don't believe anything anyone selling you something says. Thoroughly go thru and clean and inspect everything for yourself to see that it meets your standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Disc brakes are pretty self explanitory, it is hard to do them wrong. The oly problem I have ever seen is some one putting the calipers on the wrong side. Easy rule of thumb, bleed nipples above the spindle. the rest of it is pretty much erector set simple. To make thinge easier you can get "loaded" calipes with the pads and hardware in place that only need to be sild ocer the disc and hooked to the fluid lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Disc brakes are pretty self explanitory, it is hard to do them wrong. The oly problem I have ever seen is some one putting the calipers on the wrong side. Easy rule of thumb, bleed nipples above the spindle. the rest of it is pretty much erector set simple. To make thinge easier you can get "loaded" calipes with the pads and hardware in place that only need to be sild ocer the disc and hooked to the fluid lines. Greg, I know the disc brakes are self explanatory, however, I would prefer to get the disc kit from Charlie because of dealings in the past and because I'd rather support someone I know rather than a company I just heard of...., however, the one thing I had read in the past (haven't questioned, nor asked, nor verified... maybe Charlie can chime in here) is that some machining or drilling is required.... and for me, I'd prefer getting a kit that is bolt on (ie no machining, etc on my part)... so I'm kinda stuck on that point and haven't got further with going "directly" to discs.... I know that "eventually" (probably preferably now) it will be on front discs.... Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Greg,I know the disc brakes are self explanatory, however, I would prefer to get the disc kit from Charlie because of dealings in the past and because I'd rather support someone I know rather than a company I just heard of...., however, the one thing I had read in the past (haven't questioned, nor asked, nor verified... maybe Charlie can chime in here) is that some machining or drilling is required.... and for me, I'd prefer getting a kit that is bolt on (ie no machining, etc on my part)... so I'm kinda stuck on that point and haven't got further with going "directly" to discs.... I know that "eventually" (probably preferably now) it will be on front discs.... Allan For a little extra, if you send Charlie your spindles, he will drill and tap them for you...hell of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIPJOBXX Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allan I would just pull the brake shoes and soak them in some dish soap and then give them a blast with a propane torch to remove any excess oil that may be on the shoes. And also get some brake cleaning solution that you spray on and you will be able to clean up the whole brake area. I would not fool around with that major brake adjustment as that can be a pain in the butt to adjust. I just did one brake and used that propane torch and it worked great. And now for the first time I think in along time my brakes work like 1942 brakes should, not great but work!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Allan; You need breaks that work great! Not brakes that work like originals. This is 2008, not 1948. Go with the disc upgrade. We can walk you through the install. Failure is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Thanx guys for the remarks.... if the machining is done, I can send the parts to Charlie and will definitely have them done by him.... I know about the ECI and one other kit (name on tip of tongue), but I would prefer to support a forum member that I've dealt with and trust first.... I'll be getting in contact with him soon to discuss the details..... anyone need any drums, shoes etc??? (ie whatever I don't need???) Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Faust Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Well, its decided.... I'm cleaning up the arms, etc, pulling everything apart, and sending the spindles and steering arms to Charlie.... when the front brakes go back on, it'll be with discs..... Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_MN Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Well, its decided.... I'm cleaning up the arms, etc, pulling everything apart, and sending the spindles and steering arms to Charlie.... when the front brakes go back on, it'll be with discs.....Allan That's a good decision. I'm just delighted to have discs on the front of my Pickup. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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