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52Yorker

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    Male
  • Location
    ME
  • My Project Cars
    1952 Chrysler New Yorker

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    Racing a 52 New Yorker in the 24 Hours of LeMons
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  1. Thank you both, I'm happy with how it turned out, will see how it handles being on track. Hopefully the weight savings helps and the lower control arm pins are strong enough. Got quite a check list before it sees the track in October. Deciding if I want to put in all the money and effort this year or just wait a year and race in 2018 instead. rear axle swap with whatever driveshaft headaches accompany it. cut out holes for dash mounted style brake booster and pedal. plumb brake lines to entire car. make new steering column mount new seat with electric slider replace pickup tube inside fuel tank. rewire entire car and put on brake lights. service carburetor make new kickdown linkage make new exhaust since the current exhaust hangs low and the car sits on it during hard turns at speed. spun out in 'the bowl' at NHMS from it Test drive it, and then fix whatever turns out to be broken... etc...etc...etc... dale.
  2. Looks like everything fits. Finished install last night. Short answer is yes this swap is possible, long answer is that you need to modify the plymouth hardware a little and it helps to have good New Yorker parts to do it. The main differences are: 1. The lower control arm pin and bushing are physically smaller in diameter on the plymouth suspension that I installed. This makes sense as the plymouth was a 6 cyl and was lighter. I'd say this is the weakest point though it still seems more than adequate. 2. The spring pads and bump stops needed to be flipped. that meant drilling out 32 rivets and drilling holes for the pads and bump stops and swaybar hold down. 3. The new yorker uses slightly different steering arms but they will directly swap with no modification. I found it easier to leave the steering arms hanging on the tie rods when doing the swap. Just 2 nuts to remove them from the hub and no need to pop the tie rod end off. Previously used 5x5.5 wheels, now uses 5x4.5 I will need a 1" wheel spacer to get max turning radius from the 2001 Ford explorer rims that are on it now. I measured after install and it has just a tiny bit of toe in so Im not sure it will even need much of an alignment after this swap. Have not driven the car yet, will update with results once its got a few miles put on it. I intend to use the original new yorker parts that I removed to make another disc brake setup that I can use as spares. I do like that they have larger pins and bushings, Hopefully 80s to 90s dodge calipers and rotors can be made to fit. That is on the back burner. Performing rear axle swap next week. Putting on a ford 8.8 with 3.73 limited slip. Hope everyone found this informative. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Dale.
  3. Thanks Andy, Right now I am delayed by rain so I spent the last hour looking for springs that might fit, while there are some springs that come close in dimensions, I'm not certain it is time well spent as i dont know the correct spring rate or load for the NYer. My springs measure 16 uncompressed, .75 in diameter, 4 inner diameter... Moog 5711 and 5713's come close but not quite. Dale.
  4. OK, update time. Looks like this swap is going to work. 2 differences between the setups. First difference is minor. The steering arms are shaped differently. The NYer steering arm is longer and straighter than the plymouth. They were a direct swap no problem. just 2 bolts to move it. The circled picture depicts my NYer steering arm after moving it over. The tie rod end link on the NYer connects to the top of the steering arm (nut on bottom, tie rod end on top). The Plymouth connects to the bottom (nut on top, tie rod end hangs). Without swapping, my tie rod ends would not have cleared the brake caliper. The second and major difference is the pan the springs sit in My NYer pans are on the bottom of the lower control arm. The Plymouth spring pans are on the top of the control arm. This means a 1.5 inch difference in height. It appears that I can move the spring pans and bump stops over and drill holes to make them fit. Since they are mirrored side to side, I can lay them on top each other to mark the holes for easy alignment and drilling. I haven't tried taking apart the lower control arm pin and bushing to see if they are the same size. I suspect that my NYer pin and bushing are larger in size than the plymouth but I intend to disassemble them to see if that is the case as I would rather not cut the rivets off and move the spring pans if I can just move the whole lower control arm.. my springs measure 16 inches uncompressed. I am not sure how the plymouth springs measure, maybe it is possible to just use plymouth springs? maybe just use some 14.5 inch springs instead? it was dark and the mosquitos were out so this is as far as i have gotten. Otherwise, everything seems to measure to similar dimensions. I am very happy with it.
  5. All things considered, this option is plenty safe as those other options require a different hub and turning down the spindle to the same size as what im going to put on..... Your anecdotal evidence is just that. If I wanted to keep the larger hub size, I could piece together a brake setup to fit my car but not using the components available on those websites. And I'd still be making my own bracket as theirs wouldn't fit any known caliper / disc options for a 5x5. If you were my kid, I'd tell you to go do your homework.
  6. Very good to know that it worked for you. You're the first person I have heard of doing this swap. Was your car a 6 cylinder or 8 cylinder? it seems that may be the major dividing line between them, but I suspect that the mounting locations will be the same and the v8 331 early hemi (long gone, now has a 413 RB / 727 Loadflite) that mine was originally equipped with may have necessitated the 'larger' components simply due to the weight difference.... dale.
  7. There are options for a disc conversion bracket that I can bolt on, but they are expensive for just a set of brackets that I could essentially make myself. I would also have to send them my larger sized spindles to have them turned down, and I'd need different hubs which would further increase the cost. This would still require me to go from a 5x5 bolt pattern down to a 5x4.5... If I were to use my existing spindles / hubs, I'd piece together and cut my own brackets to fit brakes off a mid 80's dodge, but there are uncertainties about the rotor / caliper offset. If the plymouth suspension bolts up, this will save me money (even though it has a smaller lug pattern and I'll need different wheels), and it will be a good way for the other team to be rid of their now unneeded disc brakes. This also comes with some very expensive brake pads and all of it at a much cheaper price than I could possibly piece it together myself. Shipping will cost me a few lobsters and a trip from Maine to Mass. It also makes for a great story as it will certainly be featured on the 24HOL and several other sites if all goes as planned. All about the glory. This car is mostly exempt from the $500 limit as we aren't at risk of going fast or winning any races, and safety components are exempt from the dollar limit as well, so this could essentially not matter to the judges. They really are just happy to see us out there, even if we are mostly blocking traffic... However, I am not made of money and this is the cheapest way for me to get a disc conversion so that I can focus my monies elsewhere. I still need to do a rear axle and leaf spring upgrade, rebuild the carb, pull the heads and lap the valves, make a new exhaust (it hits the ground when cornering hard), install a better steering column, and fix a few other deficiencies before the next race. I appreciate the information you got from the interchange manual, Once I have the parts on hand, I'll be able to tell where the differences are, and with any luck will be able to use mostly stock parts to make them fit up. Dale.
  8. Quick update, We are planning to do this. The parts are enroute from Michigan to Maine now. Taking some time as people from LeMons racing community are helping to move them via relay system... No rush anyway as the weather here in Maine is still wintery. I will be sure to post as soon as we have results.
  9. Got ahold of a hollanders interchange eBook but it does not seem to have the information I am looking for. Good to have otherwise though. From what I can tell thus far, the mounting locations on the frame appear to be in the same spots with the same bolt pattern and take the same size studs. The parts that bolt to the car are just physically larger but use the same mounts. This gives me hope that we can swap over the entirety of the suspension components. At this point we are trying to find people to help use relay the parts from Michigan to Maine I thank you all dearly for sharing your wisdom. Dale.
  10. @OnkelUdo, Not sure if I got to share the tale of how we discovered that the rear drums need the rivets otherwise it is no longer hubcentric. We couldn't get a puller to pull the hubs off in order to service the rear brakes, so the rivets got cut off and subsequently we were driving for a short time on 'square wheels' This caused some overheating issues and a radiator to explode. That rear end is coming off the car and will be replaced with a limited slip rear before it hits the track again. We used the intermediate driveshaft from the motorhome that donated the engine, so moving over to something more modern won't be too big of a deal. I like the explorer rear idea as it would match the fronts if they fit, otherwise I have a dana 60, a dana 35 and a chevy 14 bolt available. I'm pretty okay with the stick welder, getting better every time the tractor breaks something, so no worries about cutting and moving the parts for fitting up an explorer rear axle when I can find one.
  11. Just took some measurements, Since my car is assembled and under 'snow', actually Ice at this point... it is a bit difficult, but I am getting very near the same measurements that you are. Didn't upload pictures of the lower mounts as they came out dark, and I was having to 'eyeball it' from above, but I was getting very close to what you had. @greg g Thank you for the idea, I wish I had known about that prior to our first race. I donated the drivetrain to the project and someone else brought the car, I ended up owning the whole thing in the end. Since we had massive brake fires, I'd need to replace all the rubber lines, wheel cylinders and shoes again which lasted less than 77 laps at Loudon. Literally had a line explode and a wheel bearing was flowing bubblin crude like it was 0 weight oil. Some of the hardware may be salvageable, but the majority of it I'd wager is going to be trash once it comes off the car. Passenger side front took the worst of it. Because I have no choice but to spend monies on it, I'd rather go with the disc conversion. I know I can make my own brackets and get a 5x5.5 rotor and caliper from a dodge ramcharger that will fit the new yorker, etc... but if I can adapt the plymouth suspension with their already complete conversion, I'd like to try. This is LeMons racing after all.
  12. I will get to the New Yorker in the morning and take some measurements of the upper and lower pin bolts during daylight. If the pivot pins share a bolt pattern where they connect to the crossmember, that gives me hope that the entire assembly would be able to swap over. If the stub axle will swap or is able to be bored, that would also be acceptable. The 52 does have a bellcrank. I am actually using an Astro van power steering box mounted on a plate welded to the frame as the original massive power steering box did not fit with the 413 RB mopar. I'm willing to fabricate whatever is needed to make it work, so long as I can make it with a grinder and a stick welder. Thank you very much for taking the measurements, That is very helpful, I've got a few feet of snow to clear off the New Yorker before I can measure in the morning. Dale.
  13. Hello all, I 'race' a 1952 Chrysler New Yorker (originally a 331 V8, Now has a 413 RB / 727) in the 24 hours of LeMons, our car has 4 wheel drum brakes which are simply not adequate for racing and need to be swapped for disc brakes ASAP. We are focusing on the front disc swap at this time. Another LeMons team is racing a 48 Plymouth that already has an 'Explorer' disc upgrade, and are currently in the process of upgrading their front end again, thus their disc brakes and the complete front end have become available to us. I am trying to figure out if the Plymouth parts can bolt up in place of our New Yorker parts. My Short question is 'Can I unbolt my New Yorker front suspension and bolt up the Plymouth suspension?' Long question is a little more involved as what I've been able to gather from looking at the catalog at www.oldmoparts.com is that the New Yorker with a V8 may have different as in 'heavier' spindles, drums, etc... New yorker has a 5x5.5 wheel bolt pattern vs the Plymouth with the explorer disc brakes seems to have a 5x4.5 lug pattern. The difference in part numbers makes me think that I cannot just move over the hubs. I'm hoping to be able to move over the upper and lower control arms with the spindles, etc... I am located in Maine and the parts are halfway across the country, need to figure out if this is possible prior to making a trip or shipping. Any advice is much appreciated. Attached pictures are the new yorker on track Loudon, October 2016 , Plymouth currently in pieces, and plymouth disc brake front end parts that are available to us. Dale.
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