bumpside

So I do have to revise my previous answer. It seems my old man recalls the center panel of the floor being a removable separate piece, so you are likely correct and I'm going to thank you for a great idea on that. Not that we wouldn't have gotten there eventually ourselves but I'm all for saving time spent banging my head against a wall. My poor battered cranium thanks you! Also, the axle swap is looking like a good idea regardless of whether we do the trans and your post reminded me of the universality of the Dana axles - they can be configured just about any way you can imagine so there's no reason we couldn't get one setup to keep the original wheels which is the biggest concern for the rear end. Thanks again!

That's the kind of info that I was looking for on the axle - common parts sources. If we do an axle, a junkyard D70 or D80 from an older F350, a trip to the axle shop, and a simple swap would net him the gear he wants for the highway and a still reasonable creeper for the low with no other changes. I was leaning this way until a conversation with my dad last night but this is still #1 on the list of simplest fixes. Thank you very much for the input. It seems that my old man is a glutton for punishment as well as he seems to really like the NV4500 idea. It may be because he has one in his DD `97 Cummins powered Ram but that's not my real concern. He's leaning towards that after we discussed the shifter position change as he's up for a replacement center panel in the floor and we do have access to another truck bell for testing fitment etc. I'll likely be contacting you about this directly for further details. Thanks Jeff! I'll be hitting them a diff shop I've used over in Hacienda Hts./La Puente as well. Thanks for the rec! And thanks again to all the above. You guys are a great crew!

I could be wrong but I wish you were right. I'm under the impression that the floor is one piece (ish) with no center hump or removable panel like the later stuff I'm used to (60's and 70's blue oval stuff). I'll check and I'll be happy if someone can save me the trouble but I'm fairly sure I'm not wrong. If it were a separate piece and we could save the original "panel" of any shape, that would make a T5, AX15, or NV3550 a much more attractive option even if we'd be losing a bit of low gear (6.XX vs. 4.0ish is a bigger difference than you'd think and we use it). I've thought about getting a custom Dana 70 or 80 but I'm pretty sure we'd be spending similar money by the time we had perches done, a gearset, and a custom axle to switch between hub pilot and stud pilot. I'll have to think about that though as it might be the most reasonable option available at this point. Hell, we could even go to a wheel based parking brake. Still, I'm pretty sure it'll be expensive as well. Anyway, thanks for the ideas. I was resisting the rearend swap but it might be worth a real deep look after all. The hump angle could change things too but I'm pretty sure I'm right on that one.

You definitely have a point but there are a few contrary facts. Throwing in a divorced GV requires a few extra small holes (frame bolts and wires) and a shorter driveshaft but changing back to "stock enough to satisfy a museum" is only that far away. On the other hand, everything else I'm finding requires the shaft plus a different hole in the floor for the shifter as a minimum. If we want to keep the original shifter location and a deep low gear, the latter requires a "truck" gearbox and the former seems to only allow for truck 4 speeds as even the later 5s are all shifted from further back. The parking brake is just the icing on the cake. I really like a simple 5 speed conversion but it's looking harder and harder given our requirements. The only option I'm finding left is a NV4500 or NV3550 but they're almost as expensive for a fresh(ish) one and they still don't support a parking brake as well as being shifted quite far back as far as I can tell. I'd really love to just throw in a later 5 speed but it seems more and more like that's not going to get us what we want any cheaper or with fewer mods. Which trans do you recommend as the simplest (no or minimal floor cutting, 6volt starter compatible, and 4.0 or numerically higher first gear)? BTW, I'm not calling you out, I know you've got a wealth of knowledge on this subject and I'm sure you have the dirt on what how the options work out in the end. Really, the only "original" way to get where we want is the 3.7 or 3.9 gears and I'm being told they're pretty much unobtanium. That or an old brownie box from a period correct semi-truck which is also absurd to find. At this point, I'm starting to lean towards just trailering the damn thing to the further jaunts. Considering he only paid a bit over $3K for the whole truck, it's getting crazy to spend that much trying to get it to keep up with traffic on the freeway.

Pretty much! Between the cars cutting you off when merging, the 4 ton SUVs flying by, and the container haulers doing 70 in the slow lane, you pretty much have to be heavy enough to pull right of way to be safe! When I'm following a 75 ton crane I feel alright about it since I'm running pretty heavy too but less than that and I'm nervous!

That's about where we're at. It'll do "around town speeds" for here in the LA/OC Metro area but it's actually dangerous to be going less than 50 on the freeway here unless you're over 60,000 lbs. Since my old man wants to go to shows (nothing fancy but he likes to go look and really likes showing up in "his own" piece), it needs to be able to get up to 55 or 60 on the flats. I did the math and tires just aren't going to get us there in a reasonable manner. I wish but.... That's what I figured but I wanted to ask the experts. Sounds like what I expected. Sounds like where we're heading as things develop. Between wanting the deep granny gear and wanting to keep a stockish shifter location, I think we're going to be stuck with a GV or Nash/US Gear unit of some type. They are damn tough and also get you a "splitter" so that you can drop a half on a hill (4OD too high? Drop -> 4 Direct still too high? Drop to 3OD, etc.) When you're RPM limited and power limited, more gears are good. You've highlighted one of my quests for more data: how close is the T9 to it's successors the T98 and T18/T19? For instance, I'm planning on pulling a Ford setup (input shaft and bell pattern) T18 from one of my trucks for a "close ratio" T19 so we will have one sitting around. It wouldn't be different other than not having to double poke but I'm thinking it might be easier to find a cheap used GV for unless the old T9 is far more similar than I expect. Meanwhile, GV does offer a fully divorced kit for $2995 with mounts but that's a lot of green for the old blue truck. The upside is that the GV unit is well known for durability with ridiculous loads, has easily available parts, and would require minimal changes (mount, shorten driveshaft, and mount switch on shifter). BTW, I'm laughing at you having the Ford and the Deere. Being a bluey, I'm on board for truck and my pops was a Deere mechanic under my grandfather for a few years as well. Even I have a soft spot for green and yellow since it's been so ground in.

OK, so let's get this straight. Is there a drop in set of gears that will work in the 1 ton rearend for a 3.7ish ratio? That would solve all of our problems since the granny gear trans has deep enough gears to get anything moving. I doubt the 3.9 would be enough change but I could be wrong. I do know the current is deep, likely 4.57 or 4.89 but 4.30 would be a possibility too. We're not looking for Bonneville here, just hitting 55 or 60 without winding out or running foot to the floor. Anyway, where could we get such a beast? Does Randy's carry them or someone else? Hmmm...

I hadn't thought of that. In reality, with the distance between the diff and the output, it wouldn't be that bad. The biggest problem would probably be that you now have two angles rather than one. Might eliminate some harmonics but it would be a bit rough on the U-Joints. Still, it could work. Hmmm...

@ Frank Elder - Thanks! That said, I do officially request info on all options for adapters to SB Mopar, Wayfarer's included. It's not spam if I'm asking for it! @nonstop - Crap! You get the credit for "Solved" because that is a massive monkey wrench and you are 100% correct. As the owner of two Cherokees and a part owner of an old CJ5, I absolutely should have known better! Thanks for catching me on the way down the wrong path. Ah well, at least I found info on the late model bellhousing be an option. That brings up all the NV trannies as well as being able to guarantee fitment on a later 4 speed which can accept a GV or US OD more readily. Meanwhile, Wayfarer, you're info is officially requested! Thanks in advance!

"An adapter to mount any Mopar small block bellhousing is available" Thanks Wayfarer! That's exactly the kind of data I was looking for. I'd love to keep it all Mopar for him. So I'm up for all kinds of learnin' but company name would be very helpful. Are you talking about Wilcap? Quality Engineered? Someone else? Thanks in advance!

Thanks Gtech. Ironically, I'm well up on both Novak and Advanced as well as Herm. One of the first things I did when I thought of doing this was to check on Novak's excellent site for info on mating the D18 to the pickup trannies. The Novak adapter to mate the D18 to a t18/t19 is $550 which is not pocket change but, when combined with the cost of a used but working Warn/Saturn, it is still about the cheapest option I've been able to piece together to keep a deep first and get a solid OD. All the above have great reps for working well and taking abuse. That's why I'm excited about this! Depending on prices we find, there's a good chance we'll end up with a "10 speed" overdrive drivetrain that's close enough to bulletproof for a 100HP/200lbft. flathead six that's between $1K and $2K total! That's really cheap! The reason I haven't just called Novak outright about this (they have great pre-sales support!) is that I wanted to confirm data on the 230 vs. the rest of the Dodge engines that are more common for their realm - nobody is transplanting these things into 4x4's in place of something else. I'm not assuming they don't know their trade, I just figure that the old Dodge six is outside of their likely experience as wide as it is. Anyway, thanks for the data, redundant or not. I'm always happy to get the cross reference and have validation of my sources. The feedback on the Warn/Saturn is appreciated too as we're looking at them for this and for our old CJ5. Happy Jeeping!

Hey guys, while chasing some old Jeep parts and checking on an ebay 5 speed from a `48 that we didn't grab, I had an epiphany about a long convoluted way to get a poor man's OD for running behind the original 230 in my old man's Pilothouse 1 Ton. So bear with me: He wants to keep the stick and the original rear end, he doesn't want to cut the floor more than necessary, and really wants to keep his "deep first" granny gear for crawling up out of his long, steep driveway (I'm not exaggerating either - couple hundred feet and varies between about 10% and 40% in grade). So the truck has a T9 in it that he's fine with other than the 1 Ton having too short a pumpkin but he doesn't want to change the rear. So, after much research, I hit on the fact that the T8/T9 were the forerunner to the T98 and the grandaddies of the still quite common T18/T19. So what if we put in a later truck 4 speed that we can "somewhat cheaply" adapt to a Dana 18 transfer case that will accept a Warn/Saturn PTO overdrive? Options abound for Dodge New Process 435's as well as Dodge & Ford T98/T18/T19. There are lots of options for the Tcase adaptation and the extra weight is really a non issue in a 1 Ton that's already heavy and always running an empty flatbed. It sounds like a winner IF I can fit one of these later transmissions into the bell of the old 230 without going too crazy. So here are my questions: 1. Does anyone have the specs for the input shaft and bell housing back pattern on these? I know on my Fords the bell's rear is pretty much identical up until they went integral and the variables are all input shaft length, diameter, and spline count. What's up with the old 230 Dodge? I can't seem to find any specifications on this kind of stuff on the web (shaft length, spline count, pilot bearing diameter, etc.). 2. Given the above, the next question (or maybe the real question) is how hard is it to adapt the later truck trannies? 3. How big are the differences for the tranny interface specs (drilling a few mount holes isn't scary but finding a correct or adaptable input shaft is the question) between the old Dodge and my Ford trannies? For instance, I've got a 4x4 T19 sitting out in AZ that we could make a great start with... So what say? Does anyone have either the answers or the raw data so I can find my own? I know you guys have got something! Share with me for the old man's sake! ;-)

Thanks but I'm already aware of the Ranger from my Ford chasing. Ironically, I'm in the process of changing out the T18 in my big block truck for a T19 that I picked up from an 80's F350 diesel 4x4. Plans call for a tail shaft swap and I need to make sure the input is the same but I'm hoping for a quick and easy way to get 4 usable gears (since I don't tow and have plenty of torque) with a tall pumpkin. Anyway, they only make the Ranger in Ford and Chevy bell patterns, so I think it would require changing trannies anyway. It's a perfect fit for your project and I'll be looking forward to hearing how it goes since we've talked about putting a Cummins in the flatbed anyway - that's all dad ran when he was driving his own truck for 40 years. He loves the 6's but I've tried to convince him that the 6bt is just too large for the PH bay so I'm hoping your completed pics might convince him. Thanks again for the lead. I'd rather hear of all the ideas I'm already aware of twice than not hear about something that works! BTW, good luck with the 4bt swap! SLT

Thanks Paul! We'll check into them. Wow, that's really cool. If you don't use the NP 5 Speed, let me know. I might be able to talk the old man into buying it for himself as it would be perfect for what he wants, assuming it is a bolt up to the 4 speed bell. If you come across another one out there, let me know. Meanwhile, we'll pursue the LWB Imperial too. That might work but 3.58 is pretty tall for the old six. Hmmm.... Thanks again! Scott

Thanks Ed! I'll work on the PH pic but the parts truck is at dad's property in AZ, so any pics would be a while... I'm guessing the 4.3 from feel but I'll have to check the count. If there is a 3.9 available, that just might be enough to make the difference. The question is who made the diff and where can I find the taller gears? Once again, makes me appreciate my 9" in my 67 1/2 ton... I'm starting to understand why all the silly Chevy guys go the way they do! That would be great but, here in SoCal at least, those are not easy parts cars to find. They may be rust free but they don't get left out in fields anymore here either... Hi Jeff! So I'm going to have to ask, what year? Me and my old man are both Highlanders - `91 for myself and `57 for my dad (first graduating class). I had a friend who worked at Burch at the end as a service writer and formed mechanic. In fact, I think my "family original" truck was bought there by my uncle back in `67. I was sad to see it go. I even miss Don Steves Chevrolet too but I don't feel that as keenly even with my grandmother's `67 Camaro RS/SS that is still in the family coming from there. As for the axle builder, I'll have to look around. I've always used a shop over by the 60 since we're up on Hacienda and it's about an even split in distance. As for the Jeep rear, it's not an option. If was I going to bastardize the axle in any way, I'd just find a way to use a full floater like a Dana 60/70/80. In fact, I've got a trailer sitting on one right now that could probably be adapted to the 6 hole mount but just wouldn't be the same, so it's not likely. That's not a bad idea though... but the tranny still hides better. Also, GV got back to me. They do have a divorced unit available with a whole box kit setup to mate to anything but it's $3K MSRP. I'm thinking even if I found someone willing to discount it, there's not going to be a lot of room. The T5 is looking better and better all the time. Thanks again to everyone either way! I'll agree that this is the place to come for Pilot House data too. A good friend of the family has a fleet of 3 Pilots but he's a V8 guy like me, so they're all running LA's on propane/CNG. His only 6 cylinder is in his `40 DeSoto that's also on propane/CNG with a 3spd/OD, so he's not really big on the truck details. Anyway, thanks again guys!