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Matt Wilson

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Everything posted by Matt Wilson

  1. I just posted a response to your other thread.
  2. My understanding is that people in this situation tap the holes in the block so that a plug can be screwed in there, with some sealant on the threads, of course. This prevents coolant from going through the internal bypass passages. They then install the external bypass water outlet (thermostat housing) on the head, with the small bypass hose that accompanies such a setup. I believe one of George Ashe's sons told me that's what George does in these situations, and that's what I'm planning to do with the 251 that I'm coverting to a 265. I plan to use the external bypass pieces from my old 230 engine. In the photo below, you can see that I tapped both the vertical hole and the horizontal hole. I expect to use the plug in only one of those holes, but I tapped then both to give myself flexibility. I used a 1/2-13 tpi tap. I may have had to drill the hole to the correct size first, so it would tap more easily, but I don't recall for sure.
  3. You might still be able to take the custom piston approach, but not purchase custom rods. You could use rods from a 237, which I believe are 1/4" longer than rods from a 265, but make your custom pistons so that their compression height is 1/4" less than stock. That way, the piston tops will still come up flush with the block deck, like the original parts would. Given the stock compression height (nearly 2"), there should be plenty of room to reduce the compression height without issue. You could even buy a modern ring set that will last a lot longer than the OEM and will preserve the cylinder bores for much longer as well. I'm having custom pistons made for my 265 build, although I'm sticking with the factory rods and bolts. The pistons are a little under $800 including tax from JE Pistons. Someone else on this forum steered me away from them a little, based on their experience with JE getting too many of his orders incorrect, but I went with them after calling every custom piston manufacturer I could find, because they offered more flexibility compared to the other manufacturers, along with the alloy that I wanted, and their price was significantly better too. You could also talk to Egge Machine, who makes custom pistons - just not forged. They might be able to make a set of pistons with a different compression height. When I talked to them about making pistons, it was going to be about $330 plus tax, but I wanted forged (just my preference). Either of the above approaches would be substantially cheaper than buying a custom set of rods and pistons. Having said all this, I would strongly caution you to check your internal engine clearances with the 237 rods prior to ordering custom pistons. The 265 rods and bolts were made the way they were made because they needed the added clearance inside the engine. The stroke of that engine is so long that a standard rod configuration, like the one in the 237, runs the risk of impacting other objects, such as the camshaft, the oil pan rails and maybe other things. If you have access to some 237 rods, you could mock them up with the 265 crankshaft and your old pistons in your block and see if they will clear everything, plus some extra clearance in all directions to account for flexing of the parts under load. The same approach could be taken with 251 engine rods.
  4. I agree that a leakdown test is a good idea.
  5. I'd make sure your valves will clear the head before taking any material of the head. You can lay the head directly on the block, unbolted and with no head gasket in place, then rotate the engine by hand and see if the valves lift the head off the block. If not, then you're good, but if so, then you could try it with something a little thinner than the head gasket in place (maybe some washers or cardboard or something) between the block and head and then see if the valves lift up the head. You could also try stuffing some modelling clay, purchased at your local hobby store (or Amazon), into each combustion chamber and then rotate the engine. You can then take the head off and stick a scale or the skinny, protruding back end of your calipers into various locations in each valve head impression in the clay, and that will give you a more accurate idea of the valve clearance. If you rely on this method, you should do this in every combustion chamber, as the chamber depth can vary from one chamber to the next. At least that seemed to be the case when I measured mine. I'd suggest 0.030 - 0.040" clearance, but other folks may have other suggestions. Having said all this, I removed about 0.060 from the head in my '49 Power Wagon when it had a 230, and I never could tell any difference in power, so I don't usually recommend it to others. It seems like it mostly just eats into the future machinability of the head. At least that was my impression. I was disappointed.
  6. Ah, ok, I didn't realize that. Thanks, Sniper. The reason I asked is because ARP's head nuts are 0.504" tall, but I was fairly sure the factory DPCD nuts are not that tall. As you might have figured, this is related to the head stud/head nut questions I've been asking in my other post. I figured I'd ask this particular question of someone who I know has (or at least had) factory head nuts, hence the reason for coming to this thread.
  7. Here's a pic that shows the oil pan gaskets for my engine, which started life as an early 60's 251 out of a Power Wagon, and which I'm coverting to a 265. For either size engine, it uses the same block, oil pan, etc., so the gaskets would be the same and I think they would be the same for your engine too. The front and rear pieces are made of cork that is between 0.240 - 0.245" thick. They are both about 0.845 - 0.855" wide and 10-13/16" long when laying flat. The side pieces don't appear to be cork, but rather some type of mostly fibrous yet somewhat rubbery stuff, and they range in thickness from 0.090 - 0.095". These are gaskets made by Best Gasket, which I purchased through Vintage Power Wagons almost 5 years ago. Hopefully this helps.
  8. Jim, I wonder if you would mind measuring the height (thickness) of one of the head nuts on your engine? Not sure if those are OEM nuts or if you replaced them. Thanks!
  9. Well, that's certainly a data point in favor of not doing that. Probably good enough reason for me to avoid it.
  10. If I decide to do like you guys have suggested and mount the brackets under the head nuts instead of on top of them, there are some brackets I know I want in place from the start (horn, throttle linkage). But if I decide later, after running the engine for some time (maybe a few thousand miles), that I want to add some more bracketry under some of the other nuts, will it be a significant risk to remove just those nuts and reinstall and re-torque them? Or should I completely remove the head and replace the gasket at that time, as part of the process of installing the new new brackets? I've heard of people removing and reinstalling just the head nuts or head bolts of interest, but it sounds like it could be a little risky.
  11. The studs I have actually are the longer ones. I even called VPW to double-check their long stud length vs. mine, just to be sure they shipped me the right ones and that checked out. I also asked them if they happen to have any longer ones, but they don't. I agree that the pre-planned approach looks cleaner, and I may still have to go that route, but it would offer a lot more flexibility to do what I'm thinking of doing.
  12. Ah, that's good to know, thanks! I didn't think to look on their website to verify what the rep told me. I just figured he was giving me ARP's position on this. ARP offers studs in 1/8" increments. It's not so much an issue with the overall length, but rather the length of the upper threaded section. That section is only 1" long and it's difficult to fit (in order from bottom to top) a flat washer, a head stud, a bracket to hold an accessory, a lock washer and another nut in that 1" length. I may be able to do it, though, if I choose washers and nuts carefully. Looking through McMaster-Carr's offerings, there may be a combination of these things that will let me do this, but it will be tight. Too long a stud and the head nut will bottom out ("shank out") on the shank of the stud. I can compensate for this by adding a washer under the nut, but then I run the risk of the upper nut (that holds the accessory bracket) extending beyond the top of the stud and not getting adequate thread engagement. I think it can probably be done, but it'll be tight.
  13. Deleted for accidental double-post.
  14. Thanks to you all for the replies so far. You guys are giving me ideas for other ways to mount things, so that's good. I still really have a preference to have studs that will protrude far enough above the head nut that I can add things later without having to remove the nuts (or bolts if I end up using bolts) to put something underneath, but I may not be able to go that route. I may have to decide up front all the things that I'm going to want up there and mount them all under the nuts. I would just prefer the flexibility of doing it the other way. I called Milodon this afternoon and their studs have 1" of thread at each end, like ARP, but it seems that they are more expensive than ARP. Having said all the above, I do have a set of studs I bought from Vintage Power Wagons that would barely do what I want to do, but I'd have to use a somewhat thin nut for the head nut (27/64, which is 0.42" tall, so not as tall as the 0.5" tall nut that ARP and Milodon recommend), omit the flat washer under the nut, use an extra-thin nut to hold the accessory in place, and no lock washer under that accessory nut....and then I'd have a couple of threads protruding above it all. Also, the VPW studs don't have as much thread length available to go into the block (0.72" vs. 1" for the other brands). Can anyone tell me how tall the factory nuts are (when studs are used)? Another question: Are the studs supposed to be threaded all the way into the block until the shank is against the block? The reason I ask is because one of the ARP reps I spoke to said I should not do that and should instead leave the stud protruding about half to one full thread above the deck. He said that if I run it all the way down, I run the risk of pulling the threads out of the block when torquing the nuts. On the other hand, the Milodon website states the following. So who's correct?
  15. Well, if it's not too much trouble, then that's fine, but if you can't find it easily, then maybe I can call Milodon and see if they can spec anything by size.
  16. Do you happen to have the part number, or do you know if Milodon lists them by size? I called Pioneer and they only have them by application, and no listing by size, so that was a dead end for me.
  17. Ok, I understand better now, thanks!
  18. Thanks, Marty. I don't quite visualize every detail of your setup, but I get the basic idea, I think. I still think there's barely enough room for the head nut, a bracket and another nut and a possibly a washer under that second nut, when the upper threaded end of the stud is only 1".
  19. For those of you running head studs, how do you manage to connect accessories (such as horn), throttle linkage, etc., on your studs? The reason I ask is because ARP studs (which is what most people seem to be using) have threaded sections that are only 1" long, according to two different ARP reps I've spoken to. That makes it difficult to install nuts for holding the head in place and then having enough thread length remaining above the nuts to install accessories and such. I think I might be able to find a combination of nut thickness, washer thickness, etc., so that I'll have enough thread to do this, but it'll be awfully close, and if the studs turn at all during nut installation, then it may mess up the whole spacing of everything. The biggest reason I really want to use studs is because I'm going to install dual carbs and having an array of studs will make it easier to figure out throttle linkage mounting arrangements after assembling the engine and installing in the vehicle. Also, one never knows when I might want to add an accessory at some point in the future, such as power steering or air conditioning....or who knows what. I suppose another question is whether the threaded sections of the ARP studs are actually a bit longer than 1". If they were just a little longer (even 1/16 or 1/8" ), then that would make a big difference. Probably wishful thinking, but if they were nominally 1" long, but in actuality a little longer, it would be helpful to know that. I wonder if someone can tell me if this is the case?
  20. Just one piece of data here, for whatever it's worth. One factor in my decision to pull the 230 out of my Power Wagon (though a small factor compared to the metal shavings I discovered coming from the tappet bores, which I discussed on your other thread) was that the valve guides were worn. I had paid the machine shop to replace all guides, but I'm 99% certain they didn't, since I later found that there was 2 - 4 times the allowed valve-to-guide clearance per the manual in most or all of them. I had somehow overlooked this when assembling the engine. The valves were new, so I knew it was an issue with the guides. I'm pretty certain I've also read about other people with guide wear on these engines. My guides were completely unmodified, just FYI. The point of this is that guides in these engines do wear, despite there being no side loads and despite the low-rpm operation, etc., so cutting down the length may accelerate that. Having said all this, my engine ran well when I decided to pull it, but who knows how long it would have stayed that way. Cutting the guides may produce other issues, such as allowing oil to get sucked into the combustion chambers more easily. My combustion chambers were somewhat of an oily mess, so some of that may have been taking place. Though it's not 100% solid data for your decision, I think it's worth considering.
  21. Thanks. I'll do a little more cleaning on it and have a better look to see if there's a way to push and turn it to release it or not. If not, then I'll just have to do like White Spyder suggested and soak the heck out of it and rinse it really well. I've got engine cleaning brushes in a variety of sizes, so I'll be running those up through the oil passages too.
  22. As others have indicated, I think my filter setup is different from yours, but I may end up soaking it in solvent and thoroughly rinsing it, as you suggested, if I can't find a way to disassemble it.
  23. The tappets I put in my 230 were probably new (NOS) at the time, and I think I can put my hands (and micrometer) on them when I get back in town at the end of this week. I'll try to remember to do that. I expect they will be somewhere in the range of 0.6235 - 0.6240, as that's what the manuals all state they should be for new parts. I can tell you by memory that all the unused oversize tappets I've measured (several dozen of them) were right in the range where they were supposed to be for new parts, and I seem to recall that most of them were at or very near the bottom of that range. So your measurements for your tappets (0.6235) sound just right for standard size tappets, although at the very bottom of the range. It sounds like they have very little wear.
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