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  1. 10 likes
    From this mornings home town parade.Happy Independent Day to all!
  2. 10 likes
    My first hobby is photography. My son, Jacob, decided at age 14 that he wanted 'an old car' when it came time to drive. I searched around and found this 1950 P20 Special DeLuxe Club Coupe that had been restored two owners ago. The previous owner bought it from the prior's estate. The PO had the bumpers rechromed, found some trim, redid steering tie rods, and a few other things. I've primarily just been doing maintenance, but Jacob is starting a Scarebird Disc Brake install real soon. I don't know why I haven't taken the time to take a photo of the car -- perhaps all the time my wife's kitchen remodel is taking? That project started at the same time we got the Plymouth -- hmm. Anyway, yesterday, 4 July 2017, I finished repairing the parking brake and then asked my youngest daughter to put on a dress and we headed out to take some photos. I started at local college campus but got run off by security. Headed to a park that has an ancient stone gazebo, but being a national holiday, the park was overrun with people. Decided I would head down to this pull off across the river as it has a place without any time telling details. Favorite shot of the youngest daughter with the Plymouth.
  3. 9 likes
    The Local Council I work for recently cleaned out the records area. Amongst the old contract files were quotes for a new utility for the electricity department. Here's one for a DeSoto. Rick
  4. 9 likes
    A few pics from this evening's cruise. These darn cars make me eat so much ice cream. I wonder how many cones have been eaten in this car over the past 64 years? I was experimenting with my iPhone tonight taking some pics. You can get some groovy distorted looking images. Lots of fanatical waves and thumbs up tonight during my cruise route. I stopped for gas and a guy approached and said he loved the car. Could he take a few pictures? Of course, I replied. Thank you. I took her up several good hills tonight. Testing her for speed and watching the temp gauge. I hit my local hill in 3rd, pulled hard, shifted into 4th and pushed on up, hitting 50 MH. Speed limit was 30 MPH so I did not go any faster. She ran great. Great cars these old Chryslers.
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    after too many years, I finally got my shop built and got to pull the 53 out of the pile of crud that slowly enveloped it and put it in the new shop. My plans are to be driving this gal next summer.
  6. 9 likes
    ...that I got my car back to road. Want to say thank you for this great forum and the help of all posts while looking for information during restoration and the answered questions I ask. First 250 mls I drove and hope a lot more will be added... Andre
  7. 8 likes
    My cousin gave me a 52 Concord 2 door when I was 14, didn't run had lots of rust and the exhaust was rotted off from under the seat back. But it was all there, my next door friend and I got it running after a weeks wait to get money together to get a used battery from the junk yard down the street. Drove around the field, taught all the 12 and up kids in the area how to shift and drive, charged them 50 cents or two gallons of gas for a half hour behind the wheel. Even set up a spot with hay bales to practice parallel parking and three point turns which was part of the NY drivers liscence test. Every kid who practiced passed their tests first time. It was a killer way to meet girls, they came from surrounding towns to practice. Drove it for two summers on the lot, never used my own money for gas after the first week it was up and running. Put on a cherry bomb and a side exit tail pipe. Rebuilt the carb, fuel pump, the Genny,and rebushed the starter. Sold it to a neighbor for 50 bucks. Bought my 46 when I was 21 for 200 dollars in 1970 from the original owner. Done 80% of the work to put it in its current form. Drive it about 3000 miles a season, and endeavor to put one long road trip a year on it. Other than a fan belt and a couple of hot start problems it has never left us stranded. Plymouth builds Great Cars.
  8. 7 likes
    well kids, I applied and was accepted to the local Concours show. FEF will be on of 20 vehicles in his class. I'll make sure to post pictures after the show this Sunday. I have to leave my house at 4AM to get to my load in time...erf! Funny thing is I bet I'll be one of the few that actually DRIVE to the show (lots of worry about "rig parking" in the literature)! Wish me luck, my first official judging!
  9. 7 likes
    I'm sneakin up on 80. Best part is sharing with Grandkids who were in town for the party. They all drove the car. First Mo-power was a Chrysler Hemi in my 35 Ford about 1958. First all Mopar Mopar is my P15 originally purchased about 1996. About "about",....I suffer from CRS but I can usually get the facts about right.
  10. 7 likes
    Going to the sun road - a photo taken on the way up...
  11. 6 likes
    Me and the boys took the plymouth to WI with the plymouth club. Not too many guys turned out. Our planned sites were kind of a bust but we had a great time driving and enjoying the scenery. Started at: and the finish. I missed it turning over by a couple tenths because we were on the highway. Eli at the historic fort
  12. 6 likes
    Well hecK took your advice, stood on my head and found those two hiding under the intake, sneaky little buggers! The best news is the manifolds are out and even better I didn't break a stud or bolt!!! Victory is sweet!! Thank you Sirs!!!
  13. 6 likes
    I'm going to enter in my first real car show tomorrow. I asked my wife if she could throw together a sign on her laser at work. This is what she came back with...Blew me away.
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    All right , all of you who were born in the first half of the last century : We may look at the world through the eyes (corrected vision) of a teenager but the world is not looking back at us with anything near the same enthusiasm. It was our duty as teenagers to find the weaknesses of our parent's generation of cars and we did our best. We know now that old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill and.... by golly..... weren't we lucky to have left home while we still knew everything?
  17. 6 likes
    Here is my '53 among the forest fires here in BC this week. I took this pic on Sunday evening. We have lots of hills, you just can't see them in the pic through all the smoke. You can also see the elevation gain I was talking about in my earlier post above. There is a river in the valley in this pic. Up and down that elevation every time I head out in the Windsor. My apologies for generalizing about Alberta drivers. I did say we have plenty of bad ones locally too. I get grumpy from too many trips down the hi-way doing the speed limit. Then being passed by someone at a much higher speed. Being local I know these roads very well. The rise in elevation, the drop in temperatures, the sudden hail, rain, and snow that can and does hit mountain passes every month of the year, is not understood by many. Carnage ensues all the time.
  18. 6 likes
    I went to the Iola Old Car Show today, as a spectator. Couldn't swing a full weekend to enter the Ol' Dodge and hang out there. There weren't many Dodge trucks, but here are a few I saw... When I first saw this one I thought it was Todd B's "Pistol Pete" based on the color. But isn't he a '49 Todd? It seems to have a Ford drive train. "429" badge on the hood and a Ford steering column and wheel. Interesting scheme on this one... A nice Town Wagon A couple nice older models... (Yes, it's not a Dodge... it's a Plymouth) And a decent '57
  19. 6 likes
    I thought I'd share my current project with everyone. I'm normally on the truck side, but my dad bought a 48 Desoto Custom 4 door a few years ago. We've been working on it VERY slowly mainly due to time constraints. The body has seen better days, the rockers were completely rusted out, and the drivers side of the car was vandalized in the 1970's (bricks were thrown at it). The sheet metal is pretty solid though, and the doors are rust free. When we bought it the engine was rebuilt in the late 70s, but they never fired it up. We got it running and drove it up and down the road. We went though the front end, resealed the rear axle, and rebuilt the brakes, so mechanically it is ready. Now all we have to complete is the dreaded rust repair and body work. I've never done anything this invasive on a car, but it wasn't too bad once you dive in. Over the 4th of July weekend, and last weekend I was able to get the rockers done on the passenger side of the car. It took a lot of time, but it is done. Don't laugh too hard, I'm not a welder or body guy. I'm just trying to make a nice driver. I'm ok with the results, so that's all that matters. Now I have one more side to do.... Pictures are below. I had to do a lot of other metal work under the car (body mounts and braces), the rear wheel well, and the front rocker/A pillar structure. A lot of it was rusted through and needed patches. It seems plenty strong now, and I think it will be good for another 50 years. I seam sealed and undercoated the inside of the rockers before welding the sill plates on. I'll try and post pictures every so often when I work on it but I can't promise it will be frequent.
  20. 6 likes
    A lot of us want to keep our trucks as original as possible and, at the same time, improve the safety and performance to drive comfortably on today's roads. Along with brake upgrades, wringing more horses out of our flatheads, adding seatbelts and tightening up our suspension components, many of us have asked--how can I cruise at 65 while keeping the RPMs in a decent range? The three "big" solutions that stand out are a- swap transmissions for something with an overdrive, like a T-5 or an A833, b- swap rear ends, or c- add an overdrive, such as a Laycock. The problem with a- is that the engine may need to be pulled, an adapter plate might be required, a new hole in the floor must be cut and then there is the clutch... and what about the parking brake? The second option, b- presents the problem of gearing that is too tall for the torque output of the engine, especially if the flathead is wimpy, such as a 201. So... c- was the option that I was most interested in. No modifications needed for the parking brake, transmission or engine. Gear Vendors sells a unit, or you can opt for the route I followed: find a Laycock J-type from a donor Volvo. Here are the modifications that I did: The old truck came with the factory optional, slightly more desirable 4.10 ratio rear end (as opposed to the 5.63 stock rear end), so it could putter happily at 45 MPH and, sounding like a manic sewing machine, hit 65 MPH. I wondered about switching out the rear end—and had picked up one that was a 2.80:1 ratio. After doing a few calculations, I realized that the rear end would make the underpowered engine even more so. Maybe an overdrive would be better? I began a search that led to a Laycock model J overdrive, about the size and shape of a small watermelon. It fit nicely in mid-frame. I installed two drive shafts, one from the to transmission to the overdrive, the second from the overdrive to the rear end. It is important to mount these with the correct angles to preserve the u-joints. I also had to move the gas tank over by about an inch to fit around the overdrive. That wasn’t such an issue—the tank needed to be replaced, anyway. The Laycock overdrive is common on older Volvos. These are often listed on ebay—without the front drive shaft. I found a complete one, cut off the end of the shaft, and had a local machinist weld a u-joint receiver onto the end to accept a short drive shaft connection to the transmission. I fitted an aluminum plate with an oil seal for the front end of the overdrive unit. Ran a 12 volt wire to a fuse and button mounted below the dash--and added a pilot light that shows when the overdrive is engaged--and that was it. Simple! (an aside: make sure that the overdrive isn't engaged when putting the truck in reverse) My biggest issue was with the speedometer output shaft. The truck cable housing wasn’t long enough to reach and the knurled connector didn’t fit. I am working on an alternative, though. A sensor connected to an Arduino, to read the speed and drive a little electric motor connected to the speedometer head… I’ll probably use a GPS to provide the speed signal. BTW, in the process of putting the overdrive in, I discovered that the parking brake drum had developed a number of fractures and was close to exploding into fragments, so I replaced the whole arrangement with a snowmobile mechanical disc brake. That set up works very well for my purposes. Another tip: I put Lucas transmission oil additive—the stuff that you see on the car parts counters—into the non-synchro transmission and it worked so well that, for most of the gears, I can shift as if the transmission is synchro. Very nice. So, does the new setup work? Oh, yeah--I say with a big smile on my face. Oh, yeah, it is very, very cool. My 201 has no problem running the overdrive, and as a side benefit, I get an extra gear in 2nd and 3rd that makes puttering around town a lot more fun. Plus, the overdrive makes it easy to downshift without double clutching. I can wave to people as go around corners! Here are the pictures:
  21. 5 likes
    I think a sleeve will be the answer but just as a final straw to grasp, maybe the score in the cylinder wall is below the travel of the bottom ring at bottom dead center. If so, it will cause you no problems. 100 to 1 against, but worth a look. Also worth a look is at the other pistons. You have a "smoking gun" for warranty if any of them have the wrong circlips.
  22. 5 likes
    We took a 305 mile round trip to Northwestern Wisconsin with the Wayfarer today. It ran great and I had no trouble keeping up with traffic. I only hit 70 once but cruised easily at 62-65 when I could. I guess the amount of driving on county roads and state highways at lower speeds must have helped my mileage. By my calculation I got over 18 mpg for the trip. It was a perfect day for a car without a/c - cloudy much of the day with temps around 70 but without rain. I still am bothered with that chattering clutch when taking off but haven't tried any remedies yet. At least it is only a problem when starting out from a stop
  23. 5 likes
    I think I might keep this thread going for a while. I will keep sharing some stories of my fun nights out cruising. Here in Kamloops, BC, The Rocky Mountain Rail Tour drops off tourists every night. 100's of them roam the streets in the evening looking for something to do in this Canadian town. They are easy to spot. Wondering all over looking at things with bright eyes. I sometimes walk the streets of town on a summer evening to meet people from all over the world. They seem to like our Rocky Mountain views from the sky window deck of a railway car. Tonight I went out to cruise town in my '53. The tourist traffic sure makes for a fun cruise. I was stopped by a flag-person controlling pedestrian traffic. In the middle of the road she stopped me. Grinning from ear to ear. She asked all about the car. Meanwhile a tourist approached me and wanted to take some pics of it. I said sure. Of course! He was from Australia. While this is going on, an older gentleman on his electric scooter rips across the road to my drivers side to come talk to me about the car too. I'm holding up traffic now and said I had better go. The flag-lady said, "No problem. You can stop traffic with that car any day." I laughed. 5 minutes later another guy on the side walk starts jumping up and down, pointing at my car and hollers. Then starts clapping. How can you not laugh? I carried on. 2 blocks later, 4 more tourists. 2 older gentleman and their wives on the sidewalk. We're all stopped at a red light. He slowly glances over, sees my car and says very confidently, "1953...Nice". I was impressed, he nailed the year. I've now had two people say that right out of the blue. Until 2 months ago, these old Chryslers were not even on my radar. I am pleasantly surprised to learn how respected these old cars are. It sure feels good to make people smile, wave and be friendly. Old cars sure seem to bring out the good in folks. Everyone who waves gets a honk from my big old, twin low tone electric air horns. They sound awesome.
  24. 5 likes
    I have to admit this forum has quickly become my #1 destination on the entire internet. I am thriving information on old Mopar vehicles. I have only been frequenting here for a short time and already see that this is "Thee" place for vintage Mopar owners. There many great folks here who are kind and very helpful. My gut tells me there are a lot of mature members here. That's great. I hope to pull whatever knowledge I can from any of you willing to share. I searched for a while to find the right home for vintage Mopar enthusiasts. Very happy to have found this one. Just for fun I thought I'd add a poll. To learn of the majority age of the members. The poll is anonymous. I will reveal I'm 46 and have a ton to learn. I could only choose 7 options, so I'm sorry but I had to end it at 71 and up. Here we go:
  25. 5 likes
    I put mine to work yesterday taking the doodle bug to a tractor show. With the trailer, I was pulling somewhere north of 4,000 lbs (probably closer to 4,500) It was in the upper 80's and even with the load it ran about 185F which is pretty darn good I think. I ran 55 mph highways doing around 50 mph with it. It did great. People really were snapping their heads around to look! I also added a period correct Kelsey Hayes electric brake controller to the truck for added safety. It look like it belongs in the cab, and it helps get the truck stopped. Taking off, it is a little slow going, but once you are to speed it is easy to maintain even going up over passes. You really need to run the engine up with my three speed to compensate for the large RPM drop from 2-3. It's not excessive but if you don't you struggle in the lower RPM ranges. Keep in mind I have a 3.54 rear end too. On my way home I had my wife take a video of me as I turned the corner by our house.
  26. 5 likes
    I just turned 57. Drove my first truck when I was 5. A flatbed dodge. Keeping it in a straight line at idle, while my dad and his friend loaded hay bales by hand. My first car was a 1969 ford LTD, puke green with an 8 track player. The Lady didn't know if it ran or not because it had been sitting for a while. Paid her $50 bucks, put in a battery, 3 stomps on the pedal and it roared to life. Now say what you will about ford, chevys, and the like, but in 1969 there was no such thing as a lemon car. Every 69 I ever owned was ugly but bullet proof and ran till the tires fell off. My first mopar was a 1964 Plymouth Barracuda with the push button transmission. Fun car till I joined the Navy. I've owned a few cars in my time, but the best ones were from the '60s. The trouble with the new cars is you need a PhD and thousands of dollars in tools and equipment to work on them. That and the fact I'm 6'7", been spinning wrenches all my life, getting in and out of the newer cars is like putting on a space suit. Squat in butt first, rotate legs into the car. Curse because you forgot to put the seat back after you 5'1" wife drove it last. Then after working in a hot garage all day repeat and drive 45 minutes back home, have a crane standing by cause your back and legs cramped up from the bucket seat you can't move around in. Now I just like the simpler cars preferably Mopar. Easy to work on, if they break down it's usually something easy to fix. With this rush rush world now a days, I like simple. No drama, no fuss and as was mentioned earlier most kids/teen trouble makers can't steal them. I got my 48 Special Deluxe about 3 years ago. It didn't run but after about a week and $100 in parts she was cooking with Crisco.
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    I got your "bad example" LOL, HRT here your looking at the original cardboard interior, that I removed to remove a dent in the roof. and then reinstalled (with contact cement) for the CA BBQ please note the hand stitching and the mouse decayed spot above the driver side visor.... RIM SHOT! (thank you..... I'm here all week..... please remember to tip your waitresses)
  29. 5 likes
    I drilled,tapped, and installed a petcock to drain the oil from my full flow filter.
  30. 5 likes
    The only regret after a proper and thorough rebuild, would be selling the car. If you are planning to keep the vehicle that the engine goes in, do it right. If this is a pleasure car, driven for fun, not a daily commuter, it'll probably outlive you. Life is often measured by great memories. Decades from now you won't remember the $500 you saved today. You will remember all the great times you had in your reliable, fun, vintage car.
  31. 5 likes
    To prime the pump, you need to completely submerge it in a container of oil and spin the shaft until all the bubbles are gone. After that, you need to prime the oil passages. Since the oil pump has a gear that meshes with a gear on the camshaft, it's not possible to stick a flat-bladed screw driver on a drill into the engine to spin the oil pump, like on many other engines, so some other method of pressurizing the oil system is needed. Some people do that by installing the primed oil pump, removing the spark plugs and cranking the engine until they see oil pressure on the gage. With the plugs removed, the engine doesn't develop compression, so the bearings won't be damaged as the engine spins - or so the theory goes. I did that with my first flathead rebuild, but I think there are better alternatives that are less risky to the bearings. Some folks have pressurized the passages with pressurized air tanks that force oil into them. I don't know the details of these setups. There is another option that I plan to use when I'm ready to start my freshly rebuilt engine. I have a spare oil pump, and I removed the gear from it by knocking out the pin that holds it to the shaft. I plan to install that pump on the engine and since the gear is removed, I should be able to spin it up with a drill and a flat-blade screw driver bit. There is a slot in the pump that normally engages the distributor, which should accommodate a flat bit. I'll spin the pump with the drill until I get good oil pressure readings for a few seconds, and then I'll rotate the engine a few degrees by hand, and I'll repeat this until I've rotated the engine at least a couple of full revolutions by hand. That should ensure the oil gets to all the passages. If you have your old oil pump, and if it produces a decent amount of pressure, it would probably be suitable for this purpose. I would take it apart and clean it up well before using it. After pressurizing everything in that manner, I plan to remove the oil pump and prime my new pump and install it onto the engine and then use the starter to spin up the engine (with plugs removed) to further ensure that everything gets well-lubed. The only areas that may not get so well-lubricated by these methods will be the tappets and valves, since they are not fed by pressurized oil, but you will no doubt be coating the tappets and their bores and the adjusting screws and valve guides with oil during assembly. I would recommend you also put oil into the cast cups that are behind the valve covers, which feed the tappets. Also, the cam lobes and the tappet surfaces that contact the cam lobes will need to be coated with cam lube for proper break-in. Usually, an engine with a new or freshly ground camshaft needs to be run at about 1800 - 2000 rpm for something like 20 minutes to ensure proper cam break-in, but follow your camshaft supplier's recommendations. Good luck!
  32. 5 likes
    Line up the rotor to the plug wire in the cap.. IE 1,5,3,6,2,4 Starting with # 1 cylinder rotor position. Adjust that #1 cylinder..the #5.. then #3 and so on.
  33. 5 likes
    I didn't realize that Oldsmobile made trucks back in the day... From 1919 And a couple of corn binders... I think this one has a different chassis under it. Looks a bit narrow. And one more nice Dodge
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    An International And one of my favorites that showed up too late to be judged.
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    Well, my wife is moving into the new kitchen as I write this. Actually, she has been moving into it since Sunday. Consequently, my son and I have managed to get back to the Plymouth's disc brake conversion. The project had stalled with lots of work on the kitchen. Still not done there, but it is functional and so I made the jump back under the car. When I last left the story I had managed to mount the new Wilwood dual tandem master cylinder on a Scarebird WWD mount which was mounted on the old master cylinder. I had also mounted the proportioning valve. Next up was the pushrod. This turned out to be easier than I've seen, but it took some effort gathering parts. I went to a local fastener shop (Valley Fasteners of Lynchburg , VA) where they sold me a threaded rod to match the threads on the "bolt with the hole" that the original master cylinder's push rod connected to... The local fastener store didn't have any connector nuts so I had to order that online. I got that "bolt with the hole" pusher rod connected to the threaded rod and then started measuring. I eventually determined that the proper length for me was 9.5 inches, but I initially cut it 9.75" After that, I got my angle grinder and commenced to making the threaded rod into a push rod. Here is the new long push rod from the piece of threaded rod, the connector nut and the two nuts I'm using for jam nuts (dark one is original and shown in the first photo). Also shown are the rubber boot for the master cylinder and the supplied 5" (metric threaded) push rod from Wilwood. And a close up of the threaded rod push rod and the Wilwood push rod: I actually smoothed it out a little bit more. But all it has to do is push a piston and there is no way it is falling out based on how the master cylinders are made. Here is a photo of a test fitting: The kind of purple marks on the bracket was a Sharpie™ that I was using to mark the threaded rod. From that original mark, I just need 1/2" because of the way the Wilwood master cylinder is made. Here was the first test fitting with the master cylinder: That approximately 1/4" gap is how I knew I made my push rod too long. Back to the garage and I threaded the jam nut and connector nut further in, got the reciprocating saw, and made quick work of the extra 1/4". Took both nuts off to chase the threads and then back under the car for final installation. My son then tested out the brake pedal and we called it a night.
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    I am not sure I should reply ..... but here goes. A friend of mine and I went into a bar and lo and behold here is one of our former students. We invite him to join us for a short beer and he says he is going to try his luck in Australia. I say, " You need to apply for a Visa to get into Australia " He says , " No problem, I have MasterCard" dp
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    I went over to my Buddies' place and took pics! This is ALL of the Damage on Her! 57,280 miles!
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    This beast is almost ready. Bonneville is only 3 weeks away. The H&F #404 1934 Desoto Airflow will be there. This isn't your grandfather's blown in line 8 cylinder 1937 Chrysler motor.
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    best way to buy is knowing you don't have to have it and have the ability to just drop the deal and walk away.....the attitude that there will always be another around the corner will pay off in spades...never pay more than what you think it is worth or comfortable paying, else you will most likely quickly learn to hate the car....
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    Forum member Todd Bracik stopped by my house. Fun afternoon.
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    I would bet the service manager and crew are not sure what and how to do much with it! The tech's probably don't know much about points and carburetors let alone Lockheed brakes and M-6 transmissions with a Fluid coupling and bellows seals.
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    Chrysler 1929 updraft carburetor with its intake and exhaust manifolds.
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    I've done 3 bonded titles here in iowa, somehow the guy that comes out and verifies the VIN has been able to put the tarp back exactly like I had it and on one occasion actually had a key or garage door opener to get into the garage........
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    I am 75. My first car was a 1935 Plymouth coupe with a rumble seat when I was 12. It was a former stock car at a local Saturday night racetrack. Not long after I got it, the former owner returned from Korea and offered to trade me a 1937 Packard rumble seat coupe which I did. He wanted to use the Plymouth to go racing again. Those were fun times. John R
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    Physically I'm 65. Mentally, 18-19 (my wife would agree). Been a carnut since grade school. Kept me out of trouble. Could've been worse.
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    Why are you sorry to comment on an older post? You can learn more from older posts than you can from many new postings.
  48. 4 likes
    thanks, you have talked me out of the swap!!! think I will just put the hemi in my 54 chevy truck, and put a six in the Plymouth!
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    what to heck with assigned money value, what concern is it to the owner if you like it or would never buy it, evidently it is WORTH IT to the owner to go the route of his choosing.....folks it is a wide open hobby for those to choose and do as they deem fit....even if it is never finished and goes to the crusher in a few years, again you must remember it was his to do as he wanted, not so much as to what you would want......am pretty sure if you folks was to pay for the way it should be done in your eyes, you may convince him to sway to your thinking....but don't count it, then it would not be what he wanted...
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    I don't know if anyone is following this thread anymore--want to give a brief update on the Toyota m/c and how my brake project turned out: I installed disc brakes on the front and back of the truck (thanks, Rusty Hope!), and used the Toyota master cylinder along with the appropriate pressure and metering valves. The m/c fit like it was made for the truck. No need for power brakes, this setup has plenty of power for stopping, with little effort on my part. So if you are looking for an m/c upgrade, I would strongly recommend the toyota version. The overdrive was well worth the effort, too. The cab is much quieter, my rpms are much lower, and I get the added benefit of easy upshifting/downshifting with the press of a button.