All of these intakes are still being manufactured or substantial amounts of new product still exists.
Offenhauser - still made, available at many suppliers, even the big chains like Summit Racing, and they also
sell "connection kits" with linkage. These dual carb intakes are for the 201, 217 and 230 USA small block engines.
Fenton - still readily available although I did not see them on the big chains.
These dual carb intakes are for the 201, 217 and 230 USA small block engines and a couple of new ones I saw for sale had linkage, and instruction sheets included.
Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/u...5770-61farnham/
A Fenton intake pictured with a home made dual exhaust manifold
A Fenton Aluminum Head
Fenton Head Details as well as Fenton Header Instruction Pages
I will apologize right now as I had these along with a bunch of stuff sent to me
and I have lost the note as to whom they came from. please drop me
a note so I can edit in the credit for the find ! Tim
* Fenton Patterns were sold in a Bankruptcy auction to Al Sharp, so see part 6 which is the Sharp Blog Piece
Edgy Speed Shop
Dual carb intake for Dodge/Plymouth 201,218 & 230 USA small block engines.
His casting mounts two, 3 bolt carburetor's such as Stromberg 97's. He also makes Heads for the small
and big block and I will attach a picture in passing.
Adapter can be found on ebay to change the two barrel mounts to Carter Ball and Ball carbs as well.
Earl makes his Cast Finned Aluminum cylinder head for both small blocks (Plymouth/Dodge 23 1/2") and big blocks - Canadian 25 1/2" engines
* If you have the instruction sheets for anyone these let me know and I will be happy to post them.
3rd part in the series, its for me the Grand Daddy of them all, straight from the Chrysler Engine Factory in Windsor Ontario Canada, factory Dual Carb intake, and factory Dual exhaust which were options on Dodge Trucks. Most believe they were only on 265 ci engines, however that is incorrect. They were available through a factory order on either the 250 or 265 ci motors, and at Dodge truck dealers, they would happily put them on any new truck you wished to put them on.
There is a local farmer who had a 1953 Fargo 1 ton pickup truck with a 238 ci motor, the dual carb and intake on it and always said he bought it right from Wellington Motors in Guelph Ontario Canada. After his death, his family found the original bill of sale for the truck and there on the bill of sale from the dealership was listed the Dual Carb and Dual Exhaust option, although it was not given an itemized price.
I believe the reason he did that was he had purchased a heavier Fargo truck with a 265 ci motor for hauling livestock the year prior and when he bought the pickup at the dealership he asked for the same setup as he had on his truck. That is a bit of speculation on my part, however I did have the chance to ask him on a couple of occasions why he had the dual carbs and he would just smile and not really give me an answer.
For this intake and exhaust I can provide more details as required as the setup is clearly in several Chrysler Manuals that we have,
Here are 3 pictures of a Factory 1952 Dodge Truck Dual Carb Intake and Exhaust that came off of a 4 ton Truck with a 265 ci motor
Here is the Factory "Chryco" Parts Manual and the page illustrating the explosion view of the Dual Carb Intake and Exhaust
Below Some Vintage Speed Advertisement and Articles -
1st up I belief is a page from the 1953 Bell Auto Parts catalog Show a Edmunds finned high compression head for Chrysler, DeSoto, DeSoto and Plymouth....$54
Courtesy of "Old Mopar fan, Don" who can be found over on HAMB
1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Front Cover
1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Aftermarket Mopar page
1953 Bell Auto Parts Catalog - Back Cover
Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ who scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine, where the
article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here.
Here is the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine on Hopping up the Plymouth with some really positive endorsement of Nicson
In creating this spotters guide for Flathead Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Desoto, Fargo intakes
my hope was to show related information, pictures of various intakes, and attach any technical information
and perhaps vintage ads for them.
I am starting it here in hopes of putting something together with the help of many members and then maybe move it to the technical archives.
Why do it here ? Only because I or someone can edit and compile.
#2 Nicson Engineering
Nicson Engineering was we believe the very 1st aftermarket maker of dual carb intakes for the Plymouth and Dodge 23 1/2" motors.
The 1st generation with several markings including the "Volumetric", and "Plymouth Dodge Cars" as well as "Plymouth dual Dodge"
was for the earlier smaller 2 bolt Carter ball and ball carbs. The one pictured below was never mounted on an engine and was the only one I have ever seen.
Here is that Nicson intake, now cleaned up, mounted with 1938 Plymouth carbs, nice new stainless linkeage all done by
George Asche - AoK racing and heading out to be a new piece of jewelry for a 1938 p6 Plymouth !
The 2nd generation intake Nicson made was for the Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge truck 25 1/2" block as well as and intake for the "Super Big Block" engines up to and including the 377 and 413 ci engine.
The 3rd generation intake was for the for the Plymouth and Dodge 23 1/2" motors taking the bigger Carter ball and ball carbs.
Next the picture of a Tattersfield and a Nicson dual carb Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead)
I have also seen a Nicson triple made as a "Chrysler Special" for the 25 1/2" block engines, but never took a picture of it. That was back in the early 70's, well before the camera on every cell phone era and have not seen one since.
Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/7710-charleyd/ who scored a copy of the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine, where the
article which gives a big thumbs up to the Nicson intake and I will put it up under that intake thread as well as here.
Here is the October 1952 Hop Up Magazine on Hopping up the Plymouth with some really positive endorsement of Nicson
#2 The Coolest Funky looking intake - Tattersfield Power Equipment
This intake came only in small block form for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1.2" flathead)
It came in 2 different generations. The 1st pictured with the Nicson intake and the 2nd generation pictured
with carbs on it. Notice the linkage tabs on the 2nd generation intake.
Courtesy of : http://p15-d24.com/user/7408-hellyeah/
A later Tattersfield intake / exhaust combo with linkage. Note the intake has linkage tabs like Edmunds did on his later dual intake manifolds. As well a picture of a Tatterfield Aluminum head - all for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead)& a letter from Tattersfield on their performance equipment
Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/user/5770-61farnham/
The Tattersfield instruction page with linkage illustration and picture of the Tattersfield intake with carb on it
In creating this spotters guide for Flathead Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Desoto, Fargo intakes
my hope was to show related information, pictures of various intakes, and attach any technical information
and perhaps vintage ads for them.
I am starting it here in hopes of putting something together with the help of many members and then maybe move it to the technical archives.
If there is lots of information coming forward, then maybe it becomes a given thread for each different intake
For now will do it as a grouping.
Why do it here ? Only because I or someone can edit and compile.
So 1st up Eddy Edmunds stuff - in my mind the Godfather of custom Mopar flathead intakes..
Attached the picture of 3 of the Edmunds intakes.
the dual carb Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge Truck (25 1/2" flathead) and the Edmunds triple for the
Chrysler, Desoto and Dodge Truck (25 1/2" flathead)
Courtesy of : http://p15-d24.com/user/296-ralph-d25cpe/
The Edmunds instruction manual pages with Linkage
Courtesy of: http://p15-d24.com/u...5770-61farnham/
A 1st generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead)
A 3rd generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead)
Courtesy of http://p15-d24.com/user/6715-dwest999/
Here is a 2nd generation Edmunds dual carb intake for the Plymouth and Dodge (23 1/2" flathead)
with integrated water and for two barrel carbs. This is the Edmunds "Pancake" Intake
Well there it was, the 1st car I ever bought, a 1970 Dodge Challenger... I knew it was a major project, but I was thinking - "well I can get parts to fix this over at the scrap yard at no extra cost and the body looks good." So I was quite pleased with things.
I was off for home and Grampa who I thought was heading to the other barn to feed the livestock was busy jacking the car up and removing the wheels, just after I left. He was also obviously on the phone with Grampa Bolton.
Home I arrived and my Dad was still at work as was Mom. I remember clearly thinking I best get to Dad first, so I got on my Motorcycle and headed to Dad's shop. I rolled in and walked into the shop where Dad was busy on a project for the Guelph Police, building what was known as Valiant pursuit package. It was a factory 360 police package. Dad and a couple of his team were taking the engine and transmission to the next level..
It wasn't unusual for me to arrive at the shop, although normally it would be after school. Dad was working the 4 to 12 shift so it was a little unusual for me to be at the shop that late in the day. So it wasn't long before Dad said, to me "so what up".. Well Dad, I bought a new car and I remember like it was yesterday his reply - "a new car, you don't say"..
I went on to explain that it wasn't exactly new, it was just new to me and that it was really a used car and it had some mechanical issues.. Well it wasn't long before he knew it was a 1970 Dodge Challenger and like every Dad likely would do he said, do you have any idea what the insurance will be on this car. Woops.. well I did think about it, but no
I hadn't checked that.
Then came how much did you pay for this car and how did you pay for it. I learned many years earlier, you may as well spill the beans, so I told him the whole story, right down to the loan manager who turned me down. The only good news is Dad couldn't stand the guy either, and Dad was about as impressed with the Loans managers lecture as I was.
But surprisingly I didn't get a lecture about it was too expensive and he did think it was a great idea to get any parts we could get from cousins John for the car for free, but as he pointed out there are a lot of things on that car that likely wont be found in the wrecking yard. Oh and he would have preferred it was a Plymouth Cuda ! Lol
Dad did also suggest I not break the news to Mom until he was home.
That was good advise and for the next few days I was chewing off my finger nails, and trying to think if I would ever get to drive the car. Not only was Dad likely right and the parts I would need likely wouldn't be at the wrecking yard, despite it being the biggest yard for likely 100 miles, but the insurance was likely going to be out of reach.
The day after Dad knew, I did what every young guy would do in my circumstances.....skipped school and headed to the farm to work on the car... lol what did you think I would do?
I drove down to the farm, parked the motorcycle and headed for the barn. About 1/2 way down to the barn I noticed
the lights were on in the barn. I remember thinking that is odd. Well surprise surprise, as I walked in the man door there was Grandpa hard at work on the car. He had the tires off the brakes all apart, the drive shaft out, the rear gear set out. Wow.. Grampa just looked up and said, well you want to go get on some farm cloths or you going to ruin those ones.
Being the only grandson, I had my own bedroom in the farm house. It was my Dads old bedroom and I had
cloths there so when I was working somewhere on the farm, I had cloths that if they got ripped or greasy it wouldn't be a problem. So I got changed and when down to the barn for the update.
Grampa who was not a licenced mechanic likely could rebuild anything and definitely repair a car to not only have it pass the mechanical inspection, but usually had them repaired to the condition it would have come from the factory in or better. Its seemed the brakes were in terrible shape, brake cylinders were leaking lining was pretty much gone and when he was checking the rear end oil it smelled burnt so he tore it down. I remember thinking oh boy this car has been run hard and put away wet and were going to wind up rebuilding it completely.
So we worked away and come lunch I asked Grampa if he checked the engine. "Nope, that is for you and your Dad."
Early in the afternoon we were off to get parts. I assumed we were heading to wrecking yard, but noper... we were off to Wellington Motors where we got 3 or 4 boxes of parts. I mentioned Grampa that I didn't have any money yet to pay for the parts and he laughed. That is ok, I will add it to your tab. As it turned out Jean McLean had dropped of $1500 so the car was really only $3000, but I wouldn't find that out, until well after I had broke the news to Mom that I had paid $4500 for a car that was torn all apart and the engine didn't even run.
Grampa Kingsbury had phoned up to Grampa Bolton and I am not quite sure who he called or what took place, but what I know is we sure got a heck of a deal for parts. By supper we had all the brakes completed, tie rod ends replaced and grandfather had the rear end gear up into his machine shop in the driving shed and I am not sure what he did to it, but I do know it was back in the rear end casing, the axles back in and the u-joints replaced. I called home and left a message with my sister that I was working at the farm so I would have supper there. That was not an unusual occurrence.
Over supper we talked about what all the car needed and he said - "well when your at school tomorrow I will head to John's and see about tires, and we need a rim as the front rim was bent" and he had a list of other parts he would try and find.
The next day, you know I headed to school... lol.. are you nuts, I was at the farm by 7am.. But Grampa was up at 430am had the chores done, had finished breakfast and he was loading up the truck. He smiled when I pulled in as I remembered , and off to Johns we went. It would be the 1st of dozens of trips to the yard. We couldn't find the rim that day and a few other things, but Grampa left a list of things for John to keep his eyes open for. Surprisingly we found brand new tires that had been full sized spares that were in the trunks of cars. That got brand new tires for the front of the car and Grampa had called Gampa Bolton about back tires. In the afternoon Grampa Bolton arrived with a brand new set of firestones for the back of the car, plus another pair on rims for spares. I had pulled out the seats and pulled out the carpet and was over with a garden hose and a bucket of soapy water cleaning the carpet and seats. As it turned out they were in good shape, just incredibly dirty.
By supper, the carpet was hanging by a swing beam in the barn dripping water, and the two Grampas had the car
up in the air using the rope system for the hay wagon in the barn. Sort of a red neck car list I guess. I really do wish I had taken a picture because it was hard to believe. Once it was up In the air they had put stands that Grampa had welded up and put under all 4 corners and they were pulling out the transmission. When it was on the ground and remember it didn't run, Grandfather Bolton wasn't happy with the way it shifted.. So out it came. It was a 4 speed manual transmission. Grandpa Kingsbury loaded into the front of Grampa Bolton's car for him to take home.. lol.. yes it really was the front, as Grandpa Bolton was driving a vw and it was rear engine with a trunk in the front. About a week later the transmission came back along with a new clutch and rebuilt or built pressure plate that definitely had some factory unauthorized modifications. To be honest I don't remember and didn't write down exactly what he had done, although I am positive Grampa would have given me a very detailed description of what he had done.
So a week and a half had gone by and still Mom didn't know about the car. Dad had the day off and down to the farm we went.. When we arrived, into the house we went to see Gramma and Grampa and Dad announced
we were down to see the new car. Grampa pipes up and said, well its down in the barn in the same spot as when John dropped it off.
The way he said it, I remember thinking he is suggesting the car is exactly as it came, but I knew there has been a ton of work done. I am pretty sure Grampa was lessening the blow given what I had paid for a ridden hard and used often sports car.
Down to the barn we went, Grampa with us and Gramma who never ever was down to the barn, was right behind us.
She too was coming to see her only Grandsons new car. So in we went and Dad started to look it over.. He slide under the car and constantly was mumbling... "ah hah".. we still hadn't opened the hood and he says, so is that is the way you bought it. I looked at Grampa and then at Dad and said, well Grandpa Kingsbury and Bolton may have helped work on it a bit.
I had forgotten the tranny was still out of the car and was over to one side of the barn in the tack room. Dad then says, so next question. do I need to check out the brakes, rear end, and front end on this car. Grampa says, of course you do, I am not a mechanic and Earl the Squirrel (my grampa Bolton) doesn't have a mechanics licence so who knows what we have screwed up. Dad just laughed and inquired who did the brakes.. Grampa fessed up and told him what all he had done. Dad looks at me and said something like, "well its a good thing your grandfathers have your back."
So up went the hood finally and Dad took off the rad cap, then pulled the dip stick, shook his head and said, well Son, we have some work ahead.. This engine is smoked.. There is antifreeze in the pan, the 1 cast iron header was visibly cracked so it has been really hot and I will bet the head gasket blew on this head. There was also oil in the radiator so the engine has to come out. Well I don't know it to be a fact, but given the Grampas' didn't put the tranny back in the car I suspect they knew what was coming.
So after a pretty close inspection, we were off for home and well.. yes you guessed it, time to tell Mom.
We arrived home and I think I pretty much stalled and waited for supper. Then you know, I was busy eating, then well I am sure there was something on TV of great importance. You see while my Mom is only about 5 foot 2 and maybe 120-130 pounds, and at 16 I was 6 feet, 225 pounds and was not someone most would want to try to bully around and my Dad was likely about 240 pounds and had forearms on him that would blow you away... Even Dad and I combined, we were not about to take on my Mom... finally I thought I had gotten out of telling Mom as she said she was going to go get ready for bed and Dad pipes up and said something to the effect of - "Tim wants to tell you about the new car he bought".. talk about letting the cat out of the bag,..
So it was quite a discussion, and yes, what about insurance, how much did it cost, how did you pay for it, and a huge list of questions came from Mom. I can tell you the CIA, FBI and even the Canadian Mounties combined couldn't interrogate as well as my Mom could.
The good news is I lived to tell the story, although I have to tell you a few times I thought I was dead, and my Dad was there trying to be supportive, but hey lol there was only so much he could do. I think it was the fact that I had paid more for a used car that needed work, that Mom and Dad had paid for a brand new 1971 car. Of course they got it through an employee discount program and well, it had a slant 6 in it, and mine had a hemi, but of course I wasn't mentioning that because that would have opened up the discussion about how much gas this thing used.
Sunday we were going down to the farm for supper and Dad asked Mom if she wanted to go early to look at the car.
So down to the farm we go and really, truly taking Mom to look at a car that wasn't running really wasn't exactly a great idea even though Dad and I thought it would be.. lol
We all went into the house and after an hour with Grampa not saying to much, I asked Mom if she want to see the car. Down to the barn we went, and honestly it really wasn't as bad as I thought.. As Grampa, Dad and I looked on Mom opened up the door, got into the car and remarked that at least the car was fairly clean, and then muttered but of course for $4500 it should be. Then Grampa who really wasn't exactly a shrinking violet at about 6 foot 6 and 285 pounds says in a low voice. "Oh it was only $3000. Jean McLean dropped it by $1500.. Now I was excited about that news and Dad was nodding like he was impressed.. Mom... nope. she just says, so you just about over paid for the car by $1500. Now how do you respond to that one.. Easy... I think it is in the Kingsbury DNA when
your Mother takes a shot like that.... you.......... of course, you stand there, say nothing and pretend your a statue !
Because there is nothing you can say that doesn't get you in more trouble. She then looks down kicks the back tire (honest she really did) and says- "well at least it has good tires so it couldn't have been driven to hard"..
Again, Kingsbury DNA ... statue.. you don't say ****..because there is no way you can win or improve your position..
I don't remember, but I can pretty much bet all three of us Kingsbury Men were nodding..
So Mom knows, Dad knows, the car is $1500 less than I thought..Grampa Kingsbury and Bolton have helped fix things up.. we just have the engine to do... we should be away to the races right... well not quite.
End of chapter two..
In Chapter 3.. Out comes the engine and the rebuild begins. Keeping in Mind, how bad could it be... lol...
Punch line - "At least the block isn't cracked!"
So this isn't about a flathead and to my one grand father, he like Richard Petty would turn up his nose as it wasn't a Plymouth ! lol
I have tried to recreate the conversations from my diary posts and what I can remember of conversations. Most of which I think I remember very well... lol.. Whether I did.. well at least two of the people in this story are still alive (besides me), so maybe I will run it by them sometime!
My 1st car, was a car my Dad purchased for me. It was a Plymouth with a slant 6 and an awesome car. The guy had painted it red with a white stripe like a Starsky and Hutch car which of course annoyed all the Ford fans. This wasn't my 1st vehicle as that was a Suzuki 250 Hustler motorcycle and the reason for starting with a motorcycle is you could in 1976, get your entire licence the day you turned 16 for a motorcycle. For a car, it was at least a three week process, so the day I turned 16 I was at the licence bureau when they opened at 8am. By 930am I was a fully licenced motorcycle driver !
But back to my story.. During the summer, I was on the motorcycle all the time, and I have no idea how many miles I put on, but it was a lot that summer. During the summer I got my drivers license and got to drive the Fargo at the farm for Grampa Kingsbury, Dad's pickup to the track hauling a trailer with tires, fuel and parts and had the Plymouth if it was raining hard and I didn't want to pull the Suzuki out of the garage.
About 2 miles from the Kingsbury farm (where I live today) is a car wrecking yard which is owned by a cousin. Of course in the area we seem to have a lot of relatives, the reason being as Grampa would say ... a horse and buggy could only travel so far..
I was over picking up something for Dad or Grampa I am not sure which and there just being towed in, was a nice looking 1970 dodge.
Sporty, Green, Vinyl top and it immediately caught my eye. I went over, didn't see any damage to body panels although there sure wasn't much rubber on the back tires.
As I was collecting whatever I had came for, I said to my cousin John McLean, hey I see you just got a new Dodge in. He laughed and said, you don't want that Tim... its not a Fargo or a Plymouth, and your Mom would kill us if we sold you that, although your Dad might smile.
I said ok, so what would that cost. John said, that one might just be a little to expensive for you. I said - "well it looks pretty nice".. he said well it is body wise, but it lost water, overheated and blew a head gasket and that is going to be expensive. I thought, expensive.. my Dad is an engineer, my Grandfather Bolton is an engineer, and my Grandfather Kingsbury could just about fix anything even though I am not sure he graduated from grade 8.
I said, well John how much ? His reply $4500.. and I went oh.. I worked at a local Hardware store and did manage to save a few dollars, lol.. plus money helping both Grampas and Dad, and I likely had $2 grand in the bank. I said, well John, can I give you a deposit and see if I can round up the money. John said, look Tim, you want it, I will hold it till you can pay for it. How much money you got saved. I told him close to half, and asked how much of a deposit did he want. His answer, no I wont take a deposit. I will hold it
until you tell me you don't want it or you can pay for it.
So off I went... My Mom was the bank manager at the local bank so she is the 1st one I asked. Mom, I have some money saved for a car. I need to borrow about $3000 to get it. She smiled, and offered for me to go talk to the loans manager. Well that was a setup.
I went in, talked to him about buying a car, and to make a long story short he told me he would take my application, but he didn't think he would approve it given my job at the hardware might pay the loan but that I was still going to school and I was also playing hockey during the winter, which paid $50 a week playing for a team in the OHA so he thought I should save my money.
Lol.. and they didn't have any idea that this car didn't even run.
So next up time to talk to Grampa.. I knew if I talked to Dad it would get shut down by Mom and would come out it needed work, big time work. So Grampa Kingsbury was next up. I went over told him the whole story, that the car needed work, was over at cousin Johns and I needed $2150 to buy the car, and wanted to borrow another few hundred to get it running. Well Grampa did what Grampa would do.. Well go warm up the truck.. lets go see this car.
So over to McLean's yard we went. The Dodge wasn't where it was earlier in the week but Grampa didn't care.. Into the office, found out where John was in the yard, then Grampa headed to their house which is right beside the yard. He went in to talk to Johns wife and Mom for a couple of minutes. John's Mom was a Kingsbury, and then out to the yard we went.
Grampa who was a large man, about 6 foot 6 and 280 pounds was easy to spot as he we walked across the 100 acre yard and John yells over.. well well its the Kingsbury Boys and I see you brought the big guns Tim.. Grampa just smiled. He then said, well John,
I hear you have my Grandsons 1st car here somewhere. John said, well maybe.
Grampa then said, well, how much are the parts to fix this car. John said, well I don't have that engine anywhere in the yard, but tell you what Charlie (my Grampa's name).. if you or Eddy (my Dad) or Earl (my other Grandfather) or Tim want to come out to the yard, anything you can find in my yard that you want for this car you can have for $1. So I do have what would be needed to get it on the road, from another engine, a rad, tires etc, but I just don't have exactly what is in that car.
Grampa said - ok well I see.. and you want $4500 for this car. John started to explain how rare the car was and Grampa just help up his oversized mitt (hand).. John stopped.. Grampa said, John, don't try and sell us. I am just asking. John said, yes, if it was anyone but you guys it would be a lot more. Grampa said, ok John. Drag it over to the farm and Ill bring you over the money on Saturday.
So there you have it.. my 1st car.. Grampa didn't look at it, he didn't see it, he didn't ask a lot of questions. Now maybe I was his only grandson had something to do with it, I am not sure.
On the way home I said, I will get you all the money I have Grampa and are we going to the bank to borrow the money. Grampa said, oh no.. you go get your money sometime and I will get whatever extra we need. Then we need to break this news to your Mom and Dad and well, we maybe in a bit of trouble.
I dug out the money I had at home, and then withdrew everything but $10 at the bank and down to the farm I went. As it turned out with a cheque I hadn't cashed, I had a total of $2300. So I needed $2200 to close the deal. Grampa and I went over to the Junk yard and into the office we went.. There was John and his wife and Grampa said well John I came to pay for the car. Johns wife Jean said, car, what car.. .. Grampa and I said nothing, and John started to explain about the car he got from a Ford Dealership that was a trade in, and they called him for an engine and when he didn't have one, nor did any other local yard he wound up buying it.
She just smiled and said, ok and how much did you sell this car to your Mothers Brother and his grandson.. John told her $4500.. She looked at him and said, $4500.. really.. Poor John was on the defensive. Grampa looked at John then looked at Jean, Johns wife and said, well here is Tim's $2300 he has saved and here is $2200 I am loaning him. You folks can discuss it after we leave and if its $4500 ok and anything different, leave me a note in the mail box if I owe you or you owe us !
Grampa then looked at me and said, lets go look at this car you just bought. So back to the farm we went, and down to the barn we went where John had tucked it away. I said did you check it out Grampa and he said, not before you were here to show me.
So we swung open one of the big barn doors and Grampa proceeds to look under it, open the trunk, open the doors and everywhere except under the hood.He looks at me and says - "you do like green don't you". I said, well for cars, yes, tractors no. He laughed.
I asked him if he wanted to see the engine, and he said, well if you want to show me, but I know what is under the hood. Given all the trim badging and markings were removed from the car, I was curious if he really knew. So I said so you know its a slant six Grampa? He smiled and said, so have they upped the cubic inches of the slant six to 426 cubic inches.
Obviously the gig was up and there under the hood was the legendary elephant that was a 426 Hemi.
That's it for part 1.
Now looking back, does this qualify as a barn find ? Lol
In part 2 : Explaining this to Dad... maybe a lot easier than explaining it to Mom !
Also, the tail of "Kingsbury's stick together" and the $1500 rebate from McLeans.... making the purchase price $3000.. That was good news, lol, would have been even better if it came before I told Mom I bought a car that didn't run for $4500!
Well the pattern is complete! Attached are a couple of pictures. The one with the blue cores was just before Christmas, and the other two were actually taken last week.
The 1st intake will actually be cast tomorrow and then a 2nd one will be cast with the integrated water tube early next week. It will be made with its own mini foam core for the water tube. The tube will be on the inside, or block side of the intake. In that way it becomes easy to make it optional, without changing the outside appearance.
Those two should be off to the machine shop early next week. Once that work is completed and everything is checked and double checked dimension wise, we will be doing some testing to confirm our flow numbers and other factors. George will then get into finalizing linkage and all the stainless steel pieces will be manufactured, machined etc and ready to mate up with the completed intakes.
Then assuming everything goes well, and there are not too many changes, we will give the thumbs up to start casting the 1st real production batch of intakes, then off to the machine shop. Right now I think we are still on track for delivery in March/April time frames.
When they are done as we a have said, we will ship them based on 1st paid for, will be 1st shipped.
As I have said before, If your concerned they will be sold out and you won’t get one, don't worry about that.
But if you one of those people that has to have one before their buddy has one, well then get your order in to get in the line ! Right now there are about 1/2 dozen ordered. Yes there are many times that in terms of people inquiring about them and expressing interest.
Happy New Years !
Well on behalf of all the AoK boys, we wish you a Happy New Years !
In the last few weeks, after being nudged by a couple of members, we started to blog.
I figured we would give it a month and see if I got a few followers interested in the ramblings of a group of
Mopar Nuts !
We have been sincerely humbled by the responses so far.
While I cant guarantee I will have the time to post as regularly throughout 2015 as I have the last month, I will try and make sure a month doesn’t go by without some new post as long as you folks are interested !
If you have suggestions for topics, want us to go down some path or another, please don’t be afraid to
make suggestions. For me this blog idea was all about giving those interested in a peak into the world of the AoK boys. Without readers, and your interest, this blog will just dry up and turn to dust.
So what I am saying, is you folks and your feedback, comments, suggestions and ideas are the key to the success of the blog and my interest in doing it for you.
Thanks again and hope you have an absolute awesome 2015 !
Tim Kingsbury – on behalf of George Jr, Rob, George III, Eric and Evan Asche - the Southern Mopar Nuts,
& Dan Kingsbury and myself, the Northern Mopar Nuts, who combined are.. The AoK boys !
Well as the year is coming to a quick end, a shout out to a great guy and fellow Mopar Nut!
I am not 100% sure what year it was, but sometime after the earth cooled, my Dad, George Asche and I were hanging out at Chrysler Carlisle (or I guess All Chrysler Nationals) when I 1st met Mike.
I think we hit it off immediately and as my Dad said, that guy has that same twinkle in his eye as you do.. Full Throttle Trouble !
Over the years we would see Mike and his buddies, and somewhere a few years ago as we were building the AoK triple Mike commissioned George to build a high end, bore out 265 big block with an AoK triple on it, for the sole purpose of burning tires !
When we purchased the our AoK dragster, I remember bringing the attached picture to Chrysler Carlisle to show a number of people, including Mike. The picture is as it left the dragsters previous owner. He had bought it from Bartone Racing, sold off the big Top Fuel Hemi, took off the wing and tried to run in a class with a big block chevy. He was never successful.
In any case, Mike had one look at the picture and it was "holy crap" and his eyes lite up like a Christmas Tree. I know Mike has been around drag strips for a long time, but I like to think between the Mopar only Drag races
on the super old track associated with Chrysler Carlisle and maybe the Worlds Fastest Dinosaur, Mike got inspired to switch his drag racing from cars to dragsters.
Now, that may be for many,be out of the frying pan and into the fire but the more I get to know Mike, the more
I realize he isnt afraid to take on the impossible or the projects that have a lot of other saying -"why bother"..
A few years ago Mike had brought his 1951 Dodge Business Coupe to Chrysler Carlisle. We had heard him
talk about it, and the cool part is just how much of it he did. It wasnt a farm the whole thing out project.
I remember like it was yesterday, over went George, my Dad Eddy, George's son Rob, his Son and myself for super by the grand stand, and then over to the show field we went to have a look at Mike's car.
We walked up and I think my 1st words were likely like his when he saw the dragster... "holy crap". lol
What I saw was absolutely the nicest Dodge coupe I have ever seen. The workmanship, the paint, and the interior was just jaw dropping. It was the kind of thing you see on $100,000+ resto-mods that someone plows a
modern hemi in it etc. But what he had done was keep true to the drivetrain that came with it, and his custom
changes were things that the Dodge Brothers would have given 2 thumbs up.
Next when Dad and George gave it a good look over and gave it 2 thumbs up, you know Mike had built a show
winner in the eyes of the Asche's and Kingsbury's..
Over time, and as Mike started other projects I had to ask, "So Mike what will it take to buy her!"
Well, it was clear, it just wasn’t for sale, and you know what, I understand and respect that.
As time past, I found not the original car that my Dad had, but a 1941 Plymouth that was very close to his 1st car.
Rob Asche and I had driven 3 days in my race car.. well that is another story for another time.. and purchased the 1941 Plymouth. As we were coming back, having just left a huge pile of US $100 bills for the 1941 Business Coupe I remember sending a note to a few guys, Mike being one. Later on I would find out, that had I asked the day I bought my 41, I could have pried the 51 Dodge out of Mike's arms.
After a big run of car shows, with Mike finding winning as a regular occurrence I think other projects that cost $$
and a lack of using and enjoying the Dodge made it available. Unfortunately I just wasn’t in a position to
I have to tell you I thought about it, and I thought about selling the 41 Plymouth to buy the 51 Dodge, but in the end I couldn’t pull the trigger. Over the last year, for other reasons there just is no chance I can swing the 51 Dodge business coupe still, so when someone posted on the forum looking for a very similar car, I thought, well
maybe it’s a sign, I can give Mike a hand. So today as we end 2014 Mike has moved from sort of putting the 1951 business coupe for sale, to it is definitely for sale, to the right home.
And believe me , the right home is the real story. Mike asked me yesterday what I thought he should ask. I gave him a number and to be honest I was a little surprised to see him listing it well below the number I suggested.
The other super news, is in the process, and with some help of his kids I think, is Mike has signed up and is on the P15-D24 site. That to me is the big win win as this guy is an absolute diehard Mopar Nut.
Oh.. also below his "brand new slingshot" dragster. Finished to the point he has fired it down the track, been successful and is already spending the off season making more changes. So yes, Mike is way faster than us AoK boy to get to the track... but hey, at least brother Rob (Rob Asche) took the dragster for a spin. Attached is the picture of him in the car, and yes, he literally drove it out of the garage and lite it up on Main Street Fertigs !
And who knows, maybe the AoK dinosaur may have to square off against the Meier-Mania (my words) dragster !
of course he has 8 cylinders and we only have 6 so he should give us a 25% head start.. lol.. 25% more cylinders, sounds fair doesn’t it ? rofl..
Well again, a huge Shout Out To Mike.. and while I am sad in some way to see his car listed...
Well maybe I can kidnap him sometime and redo the paint of my baby, the 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe..
To be honest while I can find tons of guys with way more experience, I cant think of anyone I would rather have. Just think in his 1951 Dodge, you get "ground zero" which was the labor of love for hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of hours !
Its part 4 over time.
Lol.. some pictures of the engine bay, the fuel block you will see on the fire wall as custom made by Dashman's Hot Rod and Speed Parts. They make super cool stuff.. You can get an idea on their ebay account (items for sale) or check out their website or give them a call.
Oh yes, they are the supplier of the fuel distribution block and other cool stuff on the Worlds Fastest Dinasour !
Also pics of the beautiful restored hubcaps by hubcap.com , the alternator Rob built and the waterpump view of the dual pulley system
Part 4 – The Plymouth gets trailered to AoK headquarters and is parked beside the “World’s Fastest Dinasour” & “Calling In Favors”
Well the Plymouth wasn’t home long and pictures were shared with my friends and the ideas and discussion of what the plans were for her.
In what I will call the round table discussion with George and Rob Asche we kicked around the idea of building a race engine that would still be streetable. We had just finished off the Velociraptor or the Worlds Fastest Dinosaur engine, and well we did have some spare parts.... tee hee
When we were in the design of the dragster project, Dad had called in some favors from some of his drag racing friends and colleagues and we were able to get several sets of Venolia Forged top fuel pistons made, complete with HardTuf coating on them. Those and sets of custom Plasma Moly Gapless rings actually cost more than the 1949 Plymouth was new ! Actually a lot more come to think of it !
So with the pistons and rings at up to .125 over bore and a 1952 Dodge 265 Truck Engine, the start of the project was in hand. I loaded up the Plymouth in my enclosed car trailer, and headed south/east to AoK Headquarters, where the Plymouth was tucked into bed beside the Rear Engine Dragster.
George and Rob pulled down the truck engine and the legendary and in my opinion the best Flathead Mopar Engine builder alive started the build process. Here are some of the highlights.
The engine after hot tanked and checked for cracks and defect, was decked with about .20 removed from it. The block was bored and new custom valve seats and valves installed. The crank quick was perfectly balanced from Chrysler back in the day, was prepared with a few racing tricks, and nos 265 rods were balanced to the gram. Clevite 77 Bearings were secured, as was a brand new brass water tube. Not that the water tube being brass had a lot of a performance impact, but it was a rare part that had long ago been set aside for a special project. I will also attach a picture of the oil pump beside am OEM stock oil pump. It has been built, and I say built because it was NOS when we tore it apart and made a few mods to it ! Its all about getting some oil flow to an engine which we expect will touch north of 6,000 rpm !
A 1956 dodge 265 truck head was prepared, shaved .80, and modifications made to cc the head to 70cc’s. In the end the engine is about 10.5 to 1 compression ratio. A new custom cam with 435 lift was prepared for the project. This of course is a lot less lift and a lot less compression than is in the rear engine dragster but it isn't exactly streetable !
When the engine was in the discussion phase I really wanted to have a George Asche custom made triple from a stock intake used. That was really for sentimental purposes, but I got over-ruled, lol and of course an AoK triple carb intake was used for the project.
George prepared 3 carter ball and ball carbs – model E9K1 which were original equipment for the 1956 Dodge 4 ton truck with factory dual carbs as stock equipment. These carbs are stock 1 11/16” throttle bore and 1 11/32 Venturis. Interestingly it was this throttle bore and venturi size that Lee Petty used in his 1949 Plymouth. Mind you he used 1 and well, we have 3 for this engine !
When finished these fully matched carbs sported over sized Grose Jets. Sadly Ansel Grose of Stoneham, Middlesex, Massachusetts who made the worlds best carb jets is no longer with is, and so far it does not look like anyone has taken over the business. Too bad, because his jets were unreal and the Kingsbury and Asche stashes of them is definitely pretty limited.
While George and my brothers (Rob and George III) were busy on the engine, I was on the prowl to try and put together the ability to put air-conditioning on the car. We found a dual belt pulley from a past project and using 6061T6 aircraft gear grade aluminum had dual belt pulleys made for both the crankshaft and water pump pulleys.
Now I am sure your now thinking, air conditioning, how are you doing that with 6 volts..
Well the truth is for a number of reasons, we decided to change to a 12 volt system. Brighter lights, a better wiper system etc etc.
Which of course brings up one of my many Christmas presents from George. Lol.. Hidden away from plain sight would be an upgrade from a vacuum wiper system, from a late 1940’s Chrysler George completely rebuilt an electric wiper system for the car.
By now I am sure you can see this “build a high performance flathead” project got a little wider scope.
“Brother Rob” would specially build the high amp 12 volt alternator for the project. Something he and George III do regularly as they have for the last decade or so taken over the Family Business – Asche Mechanic and Asche Mechanical Distributors.
If you want some starter, generator or automotive electrical component rebuilt, they are definitely the boys for the job. Some time I will do a blog entry on their diamond in the rough business.
I believe “Brother George” actually built the starter for the car for the project. I will attach a few pictures of the engine as it was built, and may have to put up a few other parts just to get the pictures up.
I think we were about the fall of 2013 when the engine was complete and was set aside, actually I believe right beside the dragster, as if it was a spare engine.
Somewhere along the way I acquired a 1953 Chrysler Windsor with a 265 ci motor, and while it wasn’t the motor we wanted for this project it did yield some donor parts. The rear end gear set or Pumpkin, which was a 3:54 ratio was a far more “highway friendly” set of gears than what came with the Plymouth. As well Chrysler’s being a much heavier car had bigger brakes, so the thought of much more power and speed, naturally shifted into the need to upgrade the brakes. So the Plymouth brake system was converted to Chrysler 12” brakes and that also required different rims to handle the bigger drums.
Again George and Rob would be the master behind the project and restored all of the parts, as well as brass sleeved the master cylinder (poor man power brakes) .
While that was taking place, down in George’s work shop a specially prepared 1952-56 Borg Warner R10 over drive was prepared. The top secret 1940 cluster and 2nd speed gear set was used for the project. I call it top secret because it’s a not widely known fact that the 1940 only gears give you a much faster 2nd gear. It was a trick used by one Lee Petty back in 1949 and does indeed make a huge difference. The r10 can be set up as 6 or 12 volt, this one obviously being 12 volt.
Shortly after the piece of art, that would be the overdrive was completed it was coupled up to the engine.
But not before we pulled out another mopar secret; that being the pressure plate and clutch setup of a 1956 plymouth and went to Fort Wayne Clutch for the project. Now AoK doesn’t do anything 1 off very often, so a dozen of these special heavier spring clutch and pressure plate system were made and the 1st of which was put into the plymouth, along with another secret, a custom modified flywheel which provides the perfect balance for a high performance engine.
The Plymouth's new heart was put in, and you can see the engine here on Youtube as it was fired up. While everyone wanted me to do the honors, I couldn’t take that smile away from Rob and you can see him fire it up as George smiles in he back ground and of course I am running the video.
The picture of her shortly after rolling out of the garage, still had the hood off and looking like it was ready to go to the drag strip.
The rims were all prep’s and powder coated red as was a number of pretty famous Mopar Stock cars in the 50’s. Thanks to Lorenzo Martinez of Hubcaps.com they restored a set of 1949 full hubcaps to NOS condition. I cant say enough of their work, it was absolutely unreal
The steering wheel which had cracked over time needed attention, and here is another AoK secret. . Koch’s steering wheel restoration took car of the restoration of the steering wheel and it came back better than NOS !
Another neat part that obviously didn’t come with the zero-optioned car was its clock. In one of those urban myth stories my Dad had been following up a lead about a 1949 Plymouth that was specially built for the man who would be the Canadian Prime Minister John Diefenbaker.
Well 2 years ago, one of Dad’s friends called me from Saskatoon Saskatchewan, where Diefenbaker is buried and told me that he had located the 1949 Plymouth my Dad was looking for. It was located near Neustadt, Ontario which ironically is where Diefenbaker was born. Neustadt is super close to where I live so out I went to check it out. It is in the heart of a German Mennonite and the black 1949 Plymouth was living behind a barn of an Mennonite family who make old style wooden windows. They have no electricity in their house or telephone and have an old d21 Allis Chalmers tractor with the wheels off sitting on blocks, running a big generator to run the power for the window plant.
When I inquired about the car, the owner said to me that it was John Diefenbaker’s 1st wife’s and he had actually tried to give it to a couple of museums over the years. Sadly the car had the front suspension rusted out, the engine seized. Now you would think with such a story, and little proof in hand of the story that the price of the car would be out of sight. No sir. The price was pegged at what the car weighed and the price of scrap !
So home came the 1949 Plymouth, and while many I am sure are rolling in their graves, the 1949 clock was pulled from the car, gone over and will find its way into my Aunt Thelma’s Plymouth. Aunt Thelma was a big Diefenbaker fan and I thought it was a fitting and appropriate upgrade for the old girl.
The car with temporary dual exhaust on it was taken out for a couple of test runs. OMG talk about a car that can smoke tires.
I think that is where the project sits at the moment . Still to come is a brand new end to end stainless steel dual exhaust system with a pair of specially made polished stainless steel mufflers courtesy of another friend.
As well, while the car has few miles , never saw winter and I doubt it saw rain very often, a lot of the chrome was done over pot metal on those cars and so a great deal of the pieces need to be replace or rechromed. The pursuit of air-conditioning is still ongoing with that challenge right now being I can’t find a small enough unit to fit under the dash… grrrr..
As well Rob in looking really close at the wiring, a lot of it is old and brittle, so he is busy rewiring the car in a lot of places. I call it a labor of love that you couldn’t even ask your Brother to do, but he is a man on a mission !
In the future, I may freshen up the interior and touch up things here and there.
As things progress or change I will try and update the blog, and who knows we may test it out to see if it is faster than the average Echo ! lol
So I had a bit of spare time tonight so I wrote part 3.. so a little 2 in 1 night bonus, or extra stuff to put you to sleep !
Part 3 - So what would my Aunt do.. What would me Grandfather’s do and ultimately what would my Dad do !
So The 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe, was back in the family and I had spent all winter thinking about the car and what I would do with it.
While I realize many people would try and make this super low mile car a 100 point trailer queen, that was really not in the cards. Nor would it be to wreck it as some would do by putting a 350 chevy … spit…… or a V8 in the car.
Definitely if I wanted to there is actually a 1969 426 hemi around here that I could have popped into the car.. but nah..
Now as for what my Aunt would do.. oh I am very confident I know what that would be. She wouldn’t do anything to it. Oh she might have it washed and definitely would have had it serviced as per the schedule my Dad gave her when she bought the car (and was still in the glove box) but that would be it.
My Grandfathers.. Well my Mom’s Dad, the Chrysler Engineer, likely would have been the guy, if he was alive, to put in the absolute maximum horsepower he figured the car would hold. He would likely put some supercharged v10 viper motor or something in it with a 6 speed transmission.
My other Grandfather, Grampa Kingsbury, well he would have went into the back yard and yanked out a 265 Dodge/Fargo motor with a factory dual carb and dual exhaust setup on it and built up a hot rod flathead motor that would be period correct for the generation of the car.
Finally my Dad, he would have been right in line with his Dad’s idea, but then like my Mothers 1956 Fargo, or his 1941 Plymouth, or several other vehicles, he would have put a 3 speed over drive transmission in it, and just maybe would have moved it to a floor shift like he did with Mom’s pickup. Without question, he would be looking for his good friend George Asche to build the overdrive, as he built the engine. The engine would be as close to a hot stock car or drag engine as he could make it with a Vintage Flathead 6. It also would take advantage of today’s technology and sport the AoK triple intake that was his last performance project before he died.
So what was my plan… well of course, put in a 350 chevy in it.. rofl.. not a snow ball chance in hell.. I am just messing with you folks !
The plan was to take a little bit of Grandfather Bolton and use the AoK triple which was the ultra-modern, then take a whole bunch of my Grandfather Kingsbury and use a 265 Truck Engine, which in 1952 had more horsepower than any vehicle sold my any manufacturer in North America.. and of course take a bunch of what my Dad would do including the AoK intake he had a part in.
Then to add in a little bit of my 20 year old son Daniel ideas and of course use a lot of my 2nd Dad and my brothers (from a different Mother), in George Asche Jr and my brothers Rob and G3 (George III) ideas. Heck I may even use the odd idea from Lee Petty in the project.
Daniel's was one who thought we should get a personalized license plate for the car, exactly like
George Asche's 1950 Plymouth and so.. ta dah.. that one was pretty easy to complete !
"6 in arw" Ontario version, just like George's PA version..
Next up, Part 4 – The Plymouth gets trailered to AoK headquarters and is parked beside the “World’s Fastest Dinasour” & “Calling In Favors”
In Part two - The 1949 Plymouth raises its head again or the World is a small place contest winner ..
The 1949 Plymouth would disappear and fall out of mind after Aunt Thelma had passed away. Then in 2009 at my Dad’s funeral a friend of mine told me about an old Plymouth that was for sale that I might be interested in. A couple of weeks past and I really wasn’t looking for project, but after being nagged a few times to go see the car, we embarked on a ride to St Thomas.
My friend was following directions written on a piece of paper and I remember thinking boy we are closer to London than St Thomas. When we arrived, I thought to myself what a cool old brick building this was and how it looked like a garage or commercial building built at the turned of the century. It really was a large building that had garage doors and enterances on the main street and a side street.
We walked up to the side door and out came a gentleman, I would guess in his 70’s and I remarked what a cool building he had He said it was his Grandfathers had it built in 1905 by one of the foremost builders of the day and he proceeded to give us a tour.
It was like a time capsule with several bays of projects that looked like they hadn’t been touched in decades. We then went down a long hall and came through the small office that was obviously for the garage and into what was more an old retail office space. He had offered us a coffee and we proceeded into a small kitchen area. He remarked that this was his Mom’s office really and that is why it was a lot cleaner. While it most certainly was, it looked like it had been pretty much mothballed for years. So as we got coffee, he said - “well you have come to see Mom Baby” and the truth is all I knew was it was a Plymouth. I didn’t know what year, what model or anything really. My friend was quick to jump into the conversation and said, yes we were there to see his Mother’s Baby and then went on to explain what major Mopar fans my family were.
Later on I found out that my friend had heard about the car from a mutual friend, but heard that its owner really
only had interest in selling the car if it was going to a good home and apparently he had tossed a guy who looked at it and suggested it would make a good project to put a 350 chevy in it.
He said, well I will take you over to show it to you. I thought we were going to be going for a ride. Instead he exited that office space in another direction and walked into another part of the building. This part of the building had garage bay doors on a side street.
As I walked into the garage, coming down two steps my jaw dropped. There in front of me was a 1957 Fargo PowerWagon. But the truth was, while the light blue Power Wagon was pretty impressive it was what sat on the other side of it that caused my jaw to drop.
There was the 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe and the second I saw it I knew exactly what it was.
There was Aunt Thelma’s Plymouth. I looked at my friend some how thinking it was a surprise, but nope, no one in the room seemed to know what I knew. I walked over, looked in and there on the odometer was just under 17,500 miles.
I said, nice garage and he said, oh yes, this is Mom’s garage, which means its heated, clean and only her vehicles get parked in here.
As he talked it became clear his Mother had passed away and the Power Wagon and the Plymouth had not moved since. On the seat of each were maintenance books, and every year he changed the oil and serviced the car, but the mileage listed had changed only 3 miles since 1989.
He said, well Im sure you want to hear them run and I hesitated, because the truth was I didn’t need to hear it run. I said, that would be nice, but I hope you don’t mind if I ask how much you want for them. He said, well the Power Wagon isn’t for sale, and the Plymouth, well it might be for sale. If it is it will take “$.....censored” to buy it. I said, well, you say it might be for sale, what do you mean might. He went on to say it was important to him that is go to a good home.
My friend piped in and started to become my personal marketing department and I stood back and smiled. Then it was time for a confession.
I said to him, well this isnt the 1st time I have seen this car, and I am almost positive I can tell you a little bit about the car. He smiled and said, oh I would be surprised at that. I went on to tell him the rest of the story and about the time we got to Aunt Thelma’s wedding he was half laughing and half crying. He said, well well, you may know more about this car than I do. About then he did remember where he had seen me before, and that was the MC at Aunt Thelma’s wedding.
My fear was of course. that once he knew how much I wanted the car, the price would skyrocket. That turned out to be unfounded. Oh and my friend, thought it was supposed to be a 4 door Plymouth with an overdrive. Call it the world is a small place, call it my Aunt Thelma was somewhere directing me to get back her car, or call it blind luck, it really doesn’t matter.
After 30 minutes of talking and we hadn’t even started the car, he looked at me and said well should I start the car and give you a sales pitch on the car, or are you about to tell me you want the car and it doesn’t really matter.
I reached out shook his hand and said, I think we have a deal. Then I remarked I actually thought his Mothers was unmarried and didnt have any children. Turns out it was his Aunt, but he, his brothers and sisters and a lot of the neighbors kids all called her Mom. Yes I realize it adds to the confusion when you call your Aunt Mom, but it certainly started to get a lot clearer for me.
It turned out that the car was driven from a garage on Waterloo Avenue, about 4 miles to the Garage which had the license Bureau at one end of the building and the car was parked inside while she was at work. If it rained, apparently she drove the power wagon home and come the fall the Plymouth stayed in the heated garage all winter and she drove the Power Wagon back and forth to work.
When she stopped driving, the car stayed at the garage and only really came out when she wanted to go somewhere in her car, like her best friend Thelma’s wedding. Her nephew lived across the street from the garage and when his Aunt “Mom” passed away they sold the house on Waterloo Avenue to settle the estate and he wound up with the garage and everything in it. He was the youngest of his family and so when his Mom and Dad passed away he inherited the small house across the road and with all his siblings moved away he became he Aunts right hand !
It also seemed his real mother worked with his aunt at the license Bureau and his Dad worked with his grandfather and ran the local gas station and garage. So it all became pretty clear what had happened. Or at least clear to me !
Part of the deal was the Plymouth could remain in its heated garage until spring. So it got to spend one more winter in its garage, and in April 2010 my wife and I took the Dodge Diesel Pickup that I inherited from my Dad along with my car trailer down and picked up the Plymouth.
The picture of it sitting on the grass was taken the day I picked it up. He had taken it on to the grass yard across from the garage and gave it a bath before I picked it up. We drove home, and I took it over to a buddy’s garage for him to give it a safety. He laughed as he put it up on the hoist, then took the wheels off to look at the brakes and about an hour later called me and said – So I was going to service the car, but I see by the log book it was serviced 2 days ago. I checked the oil, checked he rear end and the antifreeze and sure enough it looks like it was all just changed. He said, so come pick it up, it didn’t really take a dam thing to safety.
So up to the Garage we went, got the ownership/title, and went and changed it into my name.The 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe, was back in the family !
In Part 3 - "So what would my Aunt do.. What would me Grandfather’s do and ultimately what would my Dad do !"
So here is the story of my 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe or my entry to the "just how small the world can be" contest -
Part 1 - The back ground of the 1949 Plymouth, its owner, and its early life !
My Dad’s first cousin, that he always called "Aunt Thelma" Lewis lived in London Ontario, in a large house on Waterloo Avenue. Her Dad was a builder of large homes and industrial buildings in the early 1900's and by the late 1920’s was a very wealthy man.
When the stock market crashed in 1929 the Lewis family would loose a huge portion of their wealth, although they still owned several pieces of property. They also had several Chrysler cars and would visit the Kingsbury farm which is located in Campbellville, Ontario, Canada, a place I still live in and am proud to be the 7th generation to live here.
In 1949 my Dad would actually purchase his very first car from Aunt Thelma’s Mom. It was a 1941 Plymouth business coupe as she had bought her daughter a new Plymouth.
Dad a 17 year old, was following others in the family in the automotive trade and was apprenticing to be a mechanic at a garage in Georgetown Ontario. The garage owner also had 3 stock cars and Dad was given a chance to work on the oldest of the 3 cars which had not been very competitive in the 1948 season. Dad worked on the engine with the help of his Dad, and his Uncle and the 1949 season would see the car actually win 9 races, including 2 features.
So Dad was immediately hooked as a racing fan and he noted in his diary that he had read that Jimmy Thompson had finished 10th in the very first “Strictly Stock” race that was held on June 19 1949 at Charlotte Speedway; a 3/4 mile dirt track in Charlotte, North Carolina. This would be the birth of Nascar. There is a clipping of a newspaper that I have no idea from what paper, that stated that Lee Petty, on the 105th lap, rolled his 46 Buick Roadmaster. Apparently is was just after that race concluded that he vowed never to drive a heavy vehicle in competition again.
Early in the year as the conversation was taking place about buying the 1941 Plymouth, my Grandfather, my Dad, his Aunt Thelma and her Mom discussed what car she should buy for Thelma. Later in life Thelma would tell me that she was going to get a bigger 4 door but Dad had talked her into the much smaller business coupe. On a visit in February of 1949 for my Dad’s birthday, Aunt Thelma was driving her Mom’s big Chrysler. She lived at home with her Mom and worked at a Savings and Loan in London, although the honest truth was she most certainly didn’t need to work. When her Dad had passed away, her Mom had sold an apartment building that he owned for what was a huge amount of money. By huge I mean 1.8 million dollars.
Dad got to drive the big straight 8 Chrysler as he took Aunt Thelma, her Mom along with his Mother (my Grandmother) into Guelph for lunch at relatives. Some how they wound up a Wellington Motors. That was the local Chrysler, Desoto, Plymouth and Fargo Truck dealers and the dealerships owner was a very good friend of my Grandfathers.
Before they left that day Aunt Thelma had ordered a 1949 Plymouth business coupe configured with absolutely zero options. In fact, I believe it was a special order car because most Plymouths on lots had at least some options like a spare tire or hubcaps. This one was ordered, with not as much as a spare tire coming with it.
It definitely wasn’t that she couldn’t afford it, but lets just say she was frugal.
They would come back to Guelph to pick up the Plymouth on June 4th 1949. I had mentioned the 1st Nascar Race earlier, because while it had nothing to do with why Aunt Thelma had bought her 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe, it was ironic that when Dad got to go to the 7th race of the Strictly Stock (Nascar) season in early October of 1949 (held at Heidleberg Raceway near Pittsburgh PA) guess what Lee Petty was driving. Yes a 1949 Plymouth Business Coupe.
In the 100-mile event at Heidelberg Speedway, Petty driving his number 42 lightweight Plymouth, was five full laps ahead of his nearest competitor when the checkered flag dropped !
He was quoted as saying "We figured the lighter car would get through the turns better," . "It would also be easier on the suspension parts. We knew we could win one with the Plymouth."
The win by Petty would be the largest margin of victory of any race that season. While Lee Petty’s #42 would be the only Mopar in the field, it really didn’t matter when he was 5 laps ahead of the 2nd place car which was a Kasier, 7 laps ahead of the 3rd place car which was a Ford and 8 laps ahead of the 4th place car which would be a Chevy !
You can imagine how excited Dad was to get back home with the story of how Lee Petty was driving the exact same car as his Aunt Thelma! He was allowed to make the phone call to his Aunt Thelma’s to tell her all about it. To be honest, I doubt it really mattered to her, but she and her Mother were always excited to hear from young Eddy Kingsbury.
So Thelma would drive the 1949 Plymouth until she ordered a brand new Plymouth in 1959. The 1959 would sport a 250 ci flathead 6 cylinder. But back to the 1949. While it would have been cool if the 1949 had wound up in my Dad’s hands as the 1941 had, Thelma would sell or give the car to her best friend who like Thelma was a spinster who lived at home with her Mom.
She actually managed a license bureau. When Thelma handed over the keys for the 1949 Plymouth, with tongue firmly in cheek here, it was pretty much worn out, it had so many miles on it. I say tongue in cheek because when she sold it in 1959 it has 5,400 original miles on it and the original tires.
Interestingly enough I was alive to see her trade in her 1959 Plymouth in 1969 and it had just turned 5,000 miles.
In any case the 1949 Plymouth would move from 991 Waterloo Avenue London, down the street and across the road to 986 Waterloo Avenue London, where it was driven between May and September each year. From September to May she would drive her Dad’s Fargo pickup truck as her father had passed away a couple of years before she got the Plymouth from Aunt Thelma.
In 1989 Aunt Thelma, the life long Spinster actually got married. The standing joke when I was growing up and we asked how old she was, she would always say she was 29. So you can imagine how much fun I had at the wedding as I was the Master of Ceremony. The other interesting part was it would be her life long friend that would be her Maid of Honor and what did she come to the wedding in?…., you bet yah, the 1949 Plymouth business coupe! Her nephew had driven her to the Church in the 1949 Plymouth.
Dad and I went over and had a good look at the Plymouth that fall day in 1989 and as I looked in I noticed it had just over 17,000 miles.
Aunt Thelma would die just two years later and sadly the 6 Mopars in her garage in 991 waterloo were sold by her new Husband’s kids for a song. My father who actually shared 50% of the estate with her Husband was furious as there were some absolute museum pieces in the garage including a 1948 Chrysler Woodie that Thelma’s Mother had purchased for herself but at the time of her death in 1965 had driven it less than 200 miles in total. But I digress yet again.. lol
At her funeral in 1991 her best friend was not well enough to attend the funeral so I never did she her again. When Aunt Thelma’s estate was settled in 1992 I actually decided to go knock on the door of her friend. Unfortunately I was surprised to find out that her son had sold the house 6 months earlier and they didn’t really know where they had moved to, but thought she had died. I was definitely puzzled as I said to the new owner, I didn’t realize she was even married.
In Part two - The 1949 Plymouth raises its head again or the World is a small place contest winner ..
Finally this part 3 is just so I can attach a few more pictures. Primarily pictures of the famed Fred Luther Plymouth Motorcycle
as it is this summer.
Hope the 3 part post was worth the build up .. and as another of my hero's used to say .. and now you know the rest of the story !
As Promised - The story of the "Worlds Fastest Flathead…. Motorcycle !" - part 2
I am also going to attach two pictures from the 1931 Modern Mechanic which featured contest award winners from the “baby auto” contest. Both these featured car/motorcycle mixes and it was really from this 1931 publication that Grandfather said Fred got the idea for putting a car engine into a motorcycle.
But the story didn’t end in 1935. The Plymouth Motorcycle had the engine and transmission removed and well those pieces along with the seat and gas tank just happened to wind up in my Grand Fathers driving shed/work shop. The bike, I am not 100% sure where it went immediately after Fred Luther sold it, but I do know it was eventually discovered squirrelled away in the back of a museum that had closed. In 1950 it was reported that is was still in Fred's garage and today I am quite confident I know where it is. The in between, well that I am sure is a great story that might come to light some day, who knows!
Lets just say, the Bike is not owned by myself or my family, but I do know exactly where the bike is and I will attach some pictures taking ten years ago as the restoration of the bike started, and again this summer as the bike is very close to being completed.(see part 3 for the 2014 pictures of the bike)
So yes, the famed Fred Luther Plymouth Motorcycle lives on. In fact the “global we” are on the look out for a period tach from the 1930’s that will run off a distributor and has at least a “hint hint” 5500 rpm upper limit ! Yes in a very very small way, what started with my grandfather Earl Bolton who helped in a big way, continues today and I am as excited today as I know he was in 1935 to see the bike back running !
Finally without stealing the thunder of the rebirth of the “Plymouth Motorcycle” you can expect at some point in the future another blog entry concerning the “On the drawing board” motorcycle plan. Since my grandfather moved to Windsor in 1936 for the opening of the Canadian Engine plant I think the “Plymouth Motorcycle” was in the back of his head, because in his not pad and in his driving shed/shop was the start of the “Chrysler Motorcycle” dream !
As I promised, here is the story of the Worlds Fastest Flathead…. Motorcycle !
1st off I want to acknowledge that there is an article online on this motorcycle. Please go read it at -
Next up I want to make it very clear that in my opinion Jim Benjaminson is one of the
most dedicated Plymouth Historians on the planet and I am very happy to call him my hero !
I want to say that right up front, because some of what I am about to say may not be the same as what is in his article or other articles I will refer to. While I fully believe in Jim’s case he used the best available information, and in the case of two magazine articles published in 1935, they published what information they were given. Lets just say they were not quite given the full story and the reason why, well what my Grandfather said was they were very concerned about information being disclosed to the public, for fear that someone else would use the information to best them.
At issue, really is what the engine was capable of turning from a RPM standpoint.
But I digress..
Lets start off with a direct quote from the start of Jim Benjaminson article -
“Despite the bleak economic condition of the country in the mid thirties, the spirit of adventure was very much alive and well, especially in the world of speed. It was an "Age of Speed" and the place to be was the Bonneville Salt Flats in the uppermost corner of the state of Utah. The challengers on "the Salt" were British mostly, with specially built race cars sporting monster engines to assault the time clocks in quest of the magic title of the "Fastest Man on Earth." Even today, men still talk about the greats like Capt George Eyston and Sir Malcolm Campbell and their monstrous thundering machines. $10,000 was a lot of money then and it was reported that this huge sum would be paid to the first man to drive a motorcycle at a speed of 300 miles per hour.”
Enter one Californian named Fred Luther. Luther was an employee of Chrysler and he prevailed upon the company to supply him with motive power in his challenge to become this man. Chrysler responded by supplying Luther with a complete 1934 PF six cylinder engine and transmission. Already an experienced motorcycle racer, Luther began the necessary modifications to a 'cycle to accommodate its new power plant”
So now let me jump in here.. My Grandfather whose name is Earl Bolton worked for Chrysler with Fred Luther.Fred had left a career of board track racing, and had opened up a Garage on LA in the late 20's. I believe when the crash of 29 came, he was working for Chrysler.
The picture which ran in the July 1935 Modern Mechanix would be Fred on the motorcycle in a riding position (with the stands down) and my Grandfather looking like he is adjusting the carb on the bike although from what I know it should have been Jimmy McNeil who did the major modifications on the engine according to the notes my Grandfather made.
Now let me move to the details of the bike. The bike was a 1926 Henderson Deluxe Super 6, referred by many over the years as a Henderson “X” although the Henderson “X” was actually a different motorcycle ,so I am told by a Henderson historian . He provided me with a picture of his restored 1926 Henderson and I will attach it here.
The cool thing is the motorcycle was already stretched by the Henderson Motorcycle company and sported a 6 cylinder engine. I believe by Grandfathers notes that in summer of 1933 Fred Luther purchase the motorcycle from a gentleman who had bought it new in 1927. He had in or around “Black Tuesday” which was October 29, 1929 and the end of the big stock market crash lost everything. As I am told that motorcycle was the mode of transportation for this gentleman as he left New York state after the stock market crash. As the great depression or the “dirty thirties” as Grandfather referred to them, was in full force and he could no longer afford fuel or the bike and he sold the bike to Fred Luther.
My Grandfather who had the nickname of “Earl the Squirrel” got the name from his Squirrelling away parts, and information. Grandfather saw the younger fellow Chrysler employee, Fred as a pretty decent young man and when Fred asked for help Grandfather was glad to help out.
So I won’t say who did what, but I will say that Grandfather was pretty tight with Walter Chrysler, and by some miracle a 1934 plymouth 6 cylinder that to quote Grandfather "didn’t pass quality control at firing time" was purchase for the project for the sum of $1. I have the receipt for the engine ! Lol.. I will also say, my other Grandfather Charles Kingsbury (my Dad's father) had a brother who was an executive at Firestone and I know that the bike did sport a pair of 30”x5” specially made 8 ply tires. Whether it was through that connection or as some stories had it firestone was interested in sponsorship I am not 100% sure.
The frame was lengthened and reinforced and is some pictures I will attach here, you can see the bike and its reinforcement pretty clear.
The stock 1934 plymouth engine was rated at 77 hp at 3600 rpm and they got the engine in September of 1934. I know that the 1934 stock Plymouth carb was a carter ball and ball - model 439 which has a 1 7/16” throttle bore and 1 ¼” venture.
By grandfathers notes they built a special carb which had a 1 9/16” throttle bore and the jets bored out. My grandfathers notes, while they could have likely done the machining at work, that Jimmy McNeil sent out the machine work and it could have been to Harry Miller.
I don't know but over time have heard the Harry Miller reference enough that there is likely some substance to it.
I do know the block was decked and 40 thou was removed off of it, and 80 thou was removed off the head. The crank was already balanced coming from Chrysler and they had the rods balanced. The cam was done within Chrysler and had a 375 lift but had the duration highly modified. Yes I know the duration ! tee hee In the end the engine was guessed to be about 125 hp, but what was not a guess was what it rev’d and that was 5300 rpm. Not the 4100 reported in Popular Mechanics, 4250 rpm or the 4500 rpm reported elsewhere. It was actually a mathematical calculation or the rpm, the transmission, the sprocket and the wheel that determined the motorcycle should be able to hit 310 mph which was actually what Fred felt he needed to break the 300 mph barrier.
But I today still remain unsure if it was 300 mph or 200 mph that was the short term goal. I still have a feeling a certified 200 mph run was the goal when it first when to Bonneville.
Ironically in the July 1935 Modern Mechanix on the last page (which I will include a picture of) is Sir Malcolm Campbell endorsing Pyroil after his world record run on the sand at Daytona Beach Florida where he didn’t quite make 300 mph. Over the years that is often attributed to being done on the salt flats but it was instead in Florida. That car weighed nearly 7 tons and costed $200,000 to make according to that Pyroil Ad.
In any case the “Plymouth Motorcycle was finished in April of 1935 and was 115” long tip to tip and weighed just under 1600 pounds, with Fred Luther suited up and on it. By Grandfathers notes, with boots, skull cap and goggles on and the bike full of aviation fuel, 1598 pounds. The bike was taken out on the Muroc Dry flats for testing and later to Bonneville Salt Flats in 1935 by Fred Luther and 5 fellow Chrysler buddies, however my Grandfather was not among them. It seems my mother’s oldest sister Joyce being born side tracked Grandfather ! I believe Jimmy Mc Neil and a Chrysler employee who was a fabricator named Adolph Thuillier who was involved in the Henderson modification were the key "pit crew"
Going back to Jim Benjaminson article -
….“The bike was built over the winter of 1934-35 and made its appearance on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1935. There, under the watchful eye of the official timers, Fred Luther set out on his way to fame, glory and hopefully, $10,000 in prize money. The rules at Bonneville were the same then as they are today. To qualify for a record you must run the course both directions--down the course and then back again. The average speed of both runs determines whether or not the record has been set.
Laying into the wind, Luther pushed the bike on the first leg of the record attempt and got the bike up to a speed of 140 miles per hour. On the return run, feeling more confident, Luther continued to "open up" the engine until trouble struck--he broke a connecting rod at about 180 miles per hour--the bike was still in second gear!
Bringing the bike to a coasting halt Luther decided he had enough of the record attempt and never again attempted to reach the 300 mile per hour mark on the bike although he always did feel that the Plymouth Henderson X-Miller combination could reach that lofty figure--if only someone were willing to ride it that fast! There were no takers lurking in the shadows, however. 300 miles an hour on a motorcycle in 1935 was indeed a lofty goal. At the end of the year 1934 no automobile had ever attained that speed.
England's Sir Malcolm Campbell in his "Bluebird" race car set a world's speed record of 276 miles per hour on March 7th, 1935 at the Bonneville Salt Flats. Shortly before Luther's attempt at the Flats, Campbell again climbed into his Bluebird race car this time on the 3rd of September, and became the first man in the world to drive an automobile at a record speed of 300 miles per hour-- he just barely made the record, setting it at 301 m.p.h.”
What I do know is the transmission locked between 2nd and 3rd gear, something that could not happen in later 3 speed transmissions. Gee I wonder if this was really the 1st racing of a Plymouth that saw the “field testing” result in changes to production items. The truth is I don’t need to guess here, because I was told by Grandfather that when the tore that transmission down and saw what had happened they made changes to the mopar 3 speed transmission and the ability for the transmission to get stuck in two gears ended with the new release of the 3 speed transmission in the fall of 1935.
Also ironically by the my Grandfathers notes the Plymouth transmission was not the 1st transmission in the bike when they did the Muroc testing. It was the original Henderson gear box, but it couldn't handle the torque and "melted down" during one of the test runs
and then was replaced with the Plymouth transmission. Given I know my Grandfather was not at Bonneville, I believe he may have been involved with the changeover before it got to Bonneville.
I also believe there was not enough capacity or issues with the original Henderson gas tank and it was replaced because it is the only
way I can explain the Henderson gas tank that was later in my Grandfathers shop.
For the fun of it, read through Jim Benjaminson full article at
It is awesome !
I have attached the pictures from the June 1935 Popular Mechanics article which says
“Auto Engine Drives Motorcycle at High Speed
Assembled especially for establishing a world’s record of more than 300 miles per hour, an oversize motorcycle powered with an automobile engine has been making speed tests on the Pacific coast. The motorcycle, weighing 1,500 pounds, is powered with a six-cylinder Plymouth automobile engine with fan and generator removed. With special timing and carburetor jets, the engine makes 4,100 revolutions per minute. The wheel-base is eighty-five inches and the over-all length is 115 inches, a standard motorcycle frame being lengthened and reinforced with steel tubing. Two large sprockets connected by a three-quarter inch chain facilitate steering, the handlebars having been moved back several inches from their original position. Two steel plates, one on each side in front of the rear wheel, serve as brakes by actual contact with the ground or track. They can be raised or lowered by a lever.”
I have also attached the pictures and article from the July 1935 Modern Mechanix
To be continued in part 2 of the story.. lol.. because that is all the pictures I can attach to this post !
Well Folks -
It is that time of year again, with 2014 flying by so fast it must have been powered by a 265 ci flathead !
I know Santa has checked his list to see who was naughty and who was nice. As usually I am on the
list of several Corvette, Ford and Chevy owners and maybe even Mrs Claus's naughty list.
So while most are thinking about -
"Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that St Nicholas soon would be there."
The boys at AoK are busy wrapping presents for family, friends and as usually trying to
pull a fast one on one member of the AoK family or another. So I will let you folks in on
a little secret.
With my dear friends George, Rob and George III or G3 as I like to call him having spent hundreds of
hours working on projects for me this past year, I have a little something for them that I am trying
to figure out how to put under the tree for them.
Attached is a picture of the present from the K's in AoK going to the A's in AoK and thus
will become the the delivery truck for Asche Mechanic and AoK racing. Its a 1951 Fargo
and is a pretty cool truck.
Now given I am not sure we can get it tucked on to St Nicholas Sleigh it may not arrive
in Fertigs PA until a little past Christmas!
So ... with the AoK children nestled all snug in their beds,
With visions of sugar-plums dancing in their heads.
Mamma is in her ‘kerchief, and I in my cap,
and to settle our brains for a long winter’s nap..
We would like to wish everyone on the forum a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Years !
**** Development Update **** Behind the Scenes ***
Well as promised a little sneak peak behind the scenes on the development of the new Dual Carb AoK intake.
And just to give people an idea of where this process is going, I have also attached the finished AoK triple intake
that followed this exact same development process.
So since our last update, which to recap was the completion of the core. Unfortunately I dont have a picture of the dual intake core, so I will attached the core from the triple in a picture beside an original Eddy Edmunds Triple carb intake. The core, made of a special foam is put inside a finished mold and after the alunimum is poured in the mold, the casting is reheated and the core suddenly turns to powder and after it is blown out, you have the inside of your intake.
In any case, this is the pattern for the outter mold. Believe it or not, this is where the major work is. It is all created in wood and its something the "masters of the trade" never let people actually see. Those who do this stage are absolute artists and this is where the true magic happens in my mind.
You will notice the tab that will eventually act as a spot for truck and older cars that use linkeage attached to the outside of the intake, as well as the spot for a serial number. You may also notice the top of the carb base has tabs on both the inside and outside of the intake. Those can be used for linkage on either the inside or outside of the intake. With none of the current in production intakes offer this, it was a feature that Edmunds had, although they had 1 generation which had the tabs only on the outside and another only on the inside. For the AoK it can have either or left undrilled and not use this option.
Still to be finished at this stage, is the core and pattern for the water tube. It too will be an optional item where you can use it or leave it unused. Were having a bit of a discussion today as to its exact location as when Edmunds did include a water jacket and he didnt do it for all intakes, he never offered the otter tabs for truck or older car linkage. This is not a complex stage and should be done with another 30 hours of work which Tom says he is on track to finish before Christmas.
So images p1000073, 75, 76 are all the patterns from which the outter mold will be made from.
In the end, we will have a pattern to make the core for the inside of the intake, a pattern to make the core for the water tube and
finally a pattern for the outside of the intake.
Once you have those you use the core patterns to make foam cores. You need 1 intake foam core and 1 water tube foam core for every single intake we make. Then you set those cores inside the outter intake mold and pour it with alunimum. You let it cool, then reheat the intake to turn your cores to dust, as well as heat treat the actual alunimum. With those steps done, you have the raw intakes
ready to send for the machine shop.
In reply to the request.. here is "the truck" and the Trip to Saskatewan.. It is a 1952 Fargo and the reason I attached the combine in the grainry... its a 1955 Massey Harris, and you guess it ... it has a 265 chrylser flathead in it.
The picture of Dad beside the fargo out in Saskatewan was taken as he looked at it and he had no idea, that I would eventually purchase it, bring it back and give it to him for his birthday in Feb 2002. The picture of me with the truck tucked in the garage, is polishing the truck. yes that is the original paint, complete with original factory pinstripes still on the truck. In fact the polish job was 1/2 the restoration. Lol
the second 1/2 was changing the oils, plugs and gas in the tank and greasing it..
The one thing the Kingsbury's seemed to do is take pictures. Going back to tin type pictures I think we have 7 generations of pictures and some how there seems to be a lot with Mopars.. Lol.. I cant imagine how that happens.
Well lots have asked about AoK where that came from, and what is the story behind the Asche and Kingsbury's and to be honest it really isnt as complex as some may think. The Asche thread dates back into 40's and 50's when many members of this branch of AoK were busy driving mopars. George's Dad was a Dodge and Chrysler man, as was his Uncle Harry Hines (who is still alive today). George worked as a mechanic at various garages, as well as started helping his uncle with his stock car. As time passed George became the crew chief for the legandary #90 car, as "Uncle Harry" dazzled the tracks in PA winning race after race with his flathead Mopars. I will do a blog on Harry sometime, and maybe do an interview of him for the blog. Harry was inducted into the Nascar hall of fame a few years back and a big reason for that was his nephew and crew chief George Asche Jr. George purchased his 1929 Desoto in the early 50's and wasn't long before he had built a race 265 ci chrysler motor for it. Complete with Edmunds head, Edmunds triple carb intake, a custom cam and oh yes, bored 125 thou !
He rolled on to Daytona beach in I think it was 1955 where they still had the legendary "flying mile" drag race right on the beach. George had a hard time actually getting them to take his 29 desoto with a 6 cylinder serious, but he eventually talked his way into an entry spot by challenging one of the favourites. Well it didnt take long before they went from not taking George serious, to the challengers lined up as George won race heat after race heat. By the end of the Meet, George's Desoto was the only undefeated car, topping out with a mind blowing 142 mph pass. The cool thing is well, the 1929 desoto is still in George's possession and I will attach a couple of pictures. Most notorious was George daring my Dad Eddy to get in the back of the rumble seat for a quick pass. Dad jumped in and it was game on.
On the Kingsbury side, my grandfather was a Chrysler man involved in some wild stuff including a highly modified Henderson Motorcycle equipped with a Plymouth 6 cyclinder motor. No I am not kidding, but that is too as story for another time. My Father Eddy naturally became a Mopar guy, and his 1st car was a 1941 plymouth business coupe. He apprenticed with Mopar dealership in Georgetown Ontario, where he spent his spare time working on first stock cars and later dragsters and eventually top fuel cars. The owner of the dealer, said to him his talent exceeded what the dealership needed and he sponsored him back to school where he would eventually get his automotive engineering papers. It would be cool if the Kingsbury's and Asche's had met up at some track running head to head, feuding like some modern day Hatfield and McCoy's, but unfortunately that never happened.
That meeting would actually take place much later. My Dad and I had went on a quest to Western Canada in search of his Grandfather's (on his mothers side) homestead in Saskatewan. He has been out and tried to find it many times with no success. So he and I flew out to Winnipeg (also knicknamed Winter-peg) and made the trek to a small town called Bulyea Saskatchewan. I said well lets hit two spots - the local bar and the local post office. The long story short, the post master in the town, lived dead across the road from what turned out to be his grandfathers. On the big piece of property there was only a grainery and barn left standing, while the rest of the 800 acres was used for cash cropping wheat !
Inside that barn was a 1952 Fargo grain truck. A truck which later on I would purchase and surprise my Dad with a birthday present. The truck wasnt his grandfathers. His grandfather homesteaded their in the later 1800's, and when he retired he moved to Ontario and settled on a farm, right across the road from the Kingsbury homestead which was setlled in 1795 and I still live there. But the grandson of the gentleman who bought the farm from my great grandfather had purchased the fargo brand new, and when he retired from farming in 1989 that truck had only went 14,250 miles. Its entire life was hauling grain from the farm over to elevator #1 in Bulyea.
The 1952 fargo while was only 1 of about 50 Fargo and Dodge trucks in the Kingsbury Collection,was the apple in my fathers Eye because he got it for his birthday from his son and Grandson Daniel.
One of the things we immediately started to look for was a factory dual carb and dual exhaust setup for the truck. While it really didnt come with it from the factory, the truck cried out to have one.. lol.
So in that quest I found myself at the All Chrysler Nationals In Carlisle PA looking for among other things, a dual carb and dual intake setup. It was the 3rd time I had been there to the Meca of all Car shows (yes another topic).. and as I turned up row E, in then spot 5 and 6, there was George and his good friend and Model T enthusiast Bob Wearham . In fact I took a picture before I left and I have attached it here. For those who have visited George.... maybe you can guess what year this was !
In any case that is where the Kingsbury's met the Asche's.. Row E at the All Chrysler Nationals or as I often call it ChryslerCarlisle.
The touching piece of that story was later on, George gifted a factory orignal dual carb intake and exhaust that he has restored to my Dad. From that point forward, well there has been a lot of things happen, a lot of projects, and a lot of great fun and fellowship.
We were looking for a team name and George came up with the name AoK which stands for Asche over Kingsbury and lets face it KoA was already taken by someone.. rofl and didnt sound near as good as AoK. For a number of years you would see on Row E George and Eddy, side by side solving the worlds problems and trading war stories as I call them. The PA Dodge Motor home also referred as the Southern Mopar Nut crib and beside it the Ontario Dodge Motor home, also referred as the Northern Mopar Nut crib. Now having said that, it seems there was been Southern Mopar Nuts (Asche's) hanging in or sleeping in the Northern Mopar Nuts (Kingsbury's) crib, or visaversa on many occasion. Just like while it was the Asche's that introduced us to Smth's slab bacon, it is now quite often that the Kingsbury's are hauling it down to the Asche's as the factory store is in Erie Pa and on our way from the Kingsbury's homestead to the Asche's homestead.
So there folks is the story and honestly that is the short version.
Originally Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:54 PM
Howdy Folks -
As discussed on the forum under various topics, my father Eddy Kingsbury, George Asche, his boys Rob and George III along with a buddy and myself developed a triple carb intake for the Canadian 25 1/2" big block flatheads.
We used the 50's triple that Eddy Edmunds produced and dramatically improved the flow of the intake as well as made a number of changes to the design to dramatically improve the performance (torque and RPM) over other multiple carb intakes
We did not develop that intake for commercial purposes, but for use on our rear engine dragster and a couple of personal projects.
I put the setup on my 1949 Plymouth business coupe (sporting a modified 265 ci motor) and am currently getting ready to put it on a 1956 Fargo pickup.
If you want to see it in action on my car or the dragster I have uploaded a view video's on youtube.
I had mentioned in my post under the tatterfield intake thread that we have thought about doing a dual carb intake for the USA built 23 1/2" block engines.. aka all your P15/D24 cars.
Well the feedback over the past week has been absolutely unexpected. Heck we have already had 2 guys wanting to send checks
Today we have decided to proceed with the project! So there will be an AoK Dual Carb intake for the USA 23 1/2" flathead 6 cylinder mopars !
We basically already have all the research and the majority of testing done when we created our triple for the big block. We have had a number of car guys who are unhappy with the performance of the offy's (lots of rev but looses torque over stock) or other intakes and who are seeing huge prices for vintage Edmunds intakes, ask us to consider making a dual carb setup. We also know with lots of our triples out there to confirm our triple is outperforming the super rare Edmunds triple, that we are confident a dual carb setup would outperform any similar intake ever produced.
Our big advantage is not only is there better flow and other testing instrumentation available to us today, but foam core casting just allows for a product that could not have been made in the 40's-60's, when all of the dual carb intakes were designed.
We have spent several hours with our machinist / intake genius, who takes our designs and turns them into reality.
He will start the core development Monday !
Things we still have to finalized
1) Whether we put a water tube integrated in the intake as Edmunds did with 2 of his versions.
Note: we know it is not required, there is no measurable performance increase and the carbs don’t ice without it. But the customers are always right on what they want and a number of guys have asked for them. It required another core mold, and will require us or the customer to prep and tap both sides to it can be plumbed.
2) Whether we put the tabs or a large tab on the outside of the tube so that it can be used for trucks and older mopars. The tabs are drilled and tapped to mount linkage. (I’ve attached a picture of a factory truck intake.)
3) Whether we put the linkage tabs (like Eddy Edmunds did) on the inside (block side) of the intake or the outside of the carbs. Edmunds started off with none, then went to the inside and the last ones were all on the outside. None of the other intakes even have them.
The easy answer would be do what all the ones being produced now do which is don’t do anything, but heck the Kingsbury and Asche's never do the easy angle if it is just to avoid work or time to produce a better product !
4) Finally, what the name will be beside "AoK" lol... I know falls into the minor category.
Right now it is looking like an AoK dual carb intake, machined, with the truck linkage tab(s) are likely going to
retail for $400-$425. If we drop the water tube and truck and older car linkage tabs we are likely $25 cheaper than
We will, as several suggested serialize each intake
Thanks again for everyone who has sent notes, called us and provided input on the project
Tim Kingsbury and George Asche
AoK Racing and Asche Mechanical Distributors